Landscape Rake Build

[RobJ]

RobJ - What J.J. Said

Thanks J.J.

Larry

Ahh, missed that post at the bottom of the page, hmm, always hate to be the last post on the page...or worse...the first!

Well mine was in somewhere with the catalog. My box was falling apart to so maybe it fell in by accident. Funny looking at again the split key ring on it is also sprung.

I especially liked the reverse action in the video, for some reason my mind says it would dig in more, pop the springs, etc. But it's pretty much the same. I have a couple areas we'll probably be cleaning out for the neighbors, and with all the junk around, backing the rake in forst might save some tires.

Rob

 

[J_J]

Larry,

I just have to ask. Were you pulling the rake is float mode or power down mode?

 

[GuglioLS]

.....snip.... I especially liked the reverse action in the video, for some reason my mind says it would dig in more, pop the springs, etc. But it's pretty much the same.

Rob you are correct, in reverse mode, it did dig in quite a bit more, I could really feel the difference. My intention in reverse mode would be mostly to use it for piling up debris that has already been raked up rather than using it in reverse mode to power rake. I was just trying to break it for Renze , but I failed.


J.J.,

Float mode, as my tractor does not have down pressure. BTW the rake weighs in at 454 pounds.

Larry

 

[SkunkWerX]

Renze, you mentioned forces on a scraper blade as compared to a rake.

I agree with you, however they are two distinct animals when it comes to the types of forces they encounter. The rake merely scratchesa hard surface, where a scraper/grader blade is cutting/digging.
Here on TBN we sometimes see the discussion regarding a rake/grader blade combo unit, or the two sharing the same frame assembly, since they work is similar fashion. If this were to ever be the case (a rake/blade combo unit) the frame assembly and all pivot and fastening points would HAVE to be designed for the forces of the grader/scraper blade. If it can handle the cutting blade , handing the rake tines are a piece of cake.

It now makes sense, your comments, seeing you don't have rakes in your region. You would have to see, first hand, how the tines flex, such as grazing a tree stump. When the tines grab an immovable object, like a large rock or stump, it's like being slowed down by a large rubber band, due to the flex of the tines. You might bend a few tines to the point of replacement grabbing onto a large buried object, and that is probably why all of our North American retailers carry Rake Tines by the gross, typically 2 or 3 types, and usually on the shelf, cash and carry.

Larry's design, if anything, is overbuilt to about 5x of what specs my factory Rake is built on, but that's his style!

Bottom line, he'll rip the tines off the assembly before doing any damage to the frame, cylinders, and pivot points. That's my observation.

 

[RobJ]

Bottom line, he'll rip the tines off the assembly before doing any damage to the frame, cylinders, and pivot points. That's my observation.

I think most any rake would...and should break the tines first...first sign of trouble.

Interesting on the reverse of the rake. wonder if you can adjust the angle to make it tread lighter. I'll have to try mine in reverse net time.

 

[mjncad]

Thanks Mike - I read quite a few of your Tractor mods you post links to in your signature. I must say I am totally impressed with your aux lighting and cameras. The quality of wiring and circuitry would rival that of the Space shuttle - in fact I think your wiring is better and more reliable. Definitely not low bid construction.
Larry

I appreciate the comments Larry. If I were to do the wiring again, I'd use weather-pack connectors since I've found sources for them online. The wiring is based on building design using the ground bus instead of grounding the various components wherever there was a convenient piece of metal, and hope for a good ground. I was reading a Ford Super Duty after market body guidelines book the other night, and they mention that after market bodies (ambulances particularly) should get their power directly from the battery instead of a circuit on the vehicle. Ford's reasoning is that this poses less chance of screwing up the OEM electronics and computer with an unknown quantity. Nice to know that I had the same hunch as Ford.

So far the cameras aren't working as well as I had hoped. The biggest problem is glare, which I think is a two pronged issue. Although the monitor is meant for a vehicle, I'm getting a lot of glare on the screen. I think this is due to reflection from the ground and the lack of tinted cab windows to control stray light. I'm going to construct a cheap black poster board hood to test some of this theory out. If the hood cuts some or all of the glare, then I'm going to look at getting some thin polarizing film that works in the same manner as a camera's polarizing filter. The fold down monitor doesn't lend itself to a hood very easily.

The other part of the problem I believe has to do with the severe angle the cameras are set at. Again, I think it's light reflecting off the ground causing the problems. Once I get my PB and rear SCV's installed, I will look into moving the cameras lower so they are more level and behind the seat. If this doesn't work, then I'll look at adding polarizing filters to the camera or check with my eye doctor's optician to see if a sheet of non-prescription Transitions (Photogray) plastic is available. Maybe a set of sunglasses is what the cameras need.

Remember, the cameras and monitor were Made in China, and I got them off of Fleabay, so that could be a BIG factor too.

Matt

 

[Renze]

Larry's design, if anything, is overbuilt to about 5x of what specs my factory Rake is built on, but that's his style!

Most of the compact equipment you guys can buy at hobby stores, is underbuilt 0.5x anyways. The same thing over here, there is a company importing cheap Polish built hobby machinery. Most of it doesnt need much more than MF 35 power to twist it, as they are built cheap because in the hobby market, price is more important than durability

Another reason to build to your own standards, like Larry does, I do, and many others here on TBN

 

[MJPetersen]

there is a company importing cheap Polish built hobby machinery.

Renze, what is the manufacture of this "cheap Polish built hobby machinery." I have not found any here, how can it be that you found it there? What kinds of machinery and from where does it come? You have me intensely curious.

Mike

 

[Renze]

They import Warfama and Agromet spreaders (which are good bang for the buck) and Samasz mowers. The Samasz mowers are PZ and Deutz-Fahr copies: They used to have a lot of trouble because they used ball bearings for the mowing drums, instead of tapered rolling bearings originally used in the PZ design: Dealers that sold them, rebuilt them back to tapered roller bearings. Once done so, they were as good as the original PZ design.

Furthermore they import Ak-Pil (??) disk harrows and wing cultivators.
They also have their own line of hedge trimmers and ditch mowing buckets.

The rest of the equipment is built to specification, assumably in Polish welding shops, just as many cow fences. I worked for a company that made cow stable fencing, but they lost the work to Polish welding shops.
I'm not 100% sure that it all comes from Poland, but i know a lot of this kind of work is outsourced to Poland.
I also know from the things you said in the rollover box blade thread, that you couldnt find compact equipment in Poland... Maybe you could ask them where their stuff is built, and if you could buy directly from them without moving it to Holland first, then getting it back to Poland...
their website is at Landreus Machines Beilen

You might find something from Delmorino, my neighbour has a Kioti CK 20 and bought a Delmorino single spindle brush cutter, and a rotavator from this brand. Its Italian by the way.

 

[J_J]

Rob you are correct, in reverse mode, it did dig in quite a bit more, I could really feel the difference. My intention in reverse mode would be mostly to use it for piling up debris that has already been raked up rather than using it in reverse mode to power rake. I was just trying to break it for Renze , but I failed.


J.J.,

Float mode, as my tractor does not have down pressure. BTW the rake weighs in at 454 pounds.

Larry

Larry,

Is that cylinder on the top of your 3 Point frame a double acting cylinder?, if it is , then you have down pressure. If it is a single acting cylinder, you could swap it out for a double acting cylinder, and have down pressure for the rake and any other implement you have.

 

[3RRL]

Larry,

Is that cylinder on the top of your 3 Point frame a double acting cylinder?, if it is , then you have down pressure. If it is a single acting cylinder, you could swap it out for a double acting cylinder, and have down pressure for the rake and any other implement you have.

Hi JJ,
Larry's top link is a double acting cylinder.
In order for it to create down pressure, it would need to be extended so that all the upward movement of his upper lift arms is eliminated. Otherwise his implement would still rise upwards until they hit the end of their upward travel. The other thing is the angle the rake would sit since it's captured by the lift pins, pivoting at that point and would angle down making the rake tine angle very aggressive, so I don't know about that. In his case, since he has a long boom, it might get pretty close to doing that? Have you tried that Larry to see how close the upper lift arms come to bottoming out in the up travel? I use my side links fully extended to reach that point to spread the upper and lower lift apart as much as possible. Then if you extended the top link ...??

Anyway, wow Larry, fantastic results with your rake too.
That video says it all.
That rake works extremely great, much better than Loretta's. Not only in consideration of all the multi features it has, but also from it's size and weight. It really get in there and digs. You have made one heck of a useful tool there.
I'll bet you are super pleased.

 

[GuglioLS]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the nice compliments and explaining all that mechanical techno babble stuff. And yes, I am super pleased with how nice it turned out.

As far as down pressure goes - I suppose I could extend the tilt a.k.a. (lift link) cylinders to there max in conjunction with extending the top link to get some down pressure that way, however I see no reason to do that as the 454 pounds of weight the rake has are already enough down pressure as it is. (the video clearly shows lots of material being raked off the surface). IF I need to go any deeper than the tines will go naturally under their own weight. I would rather hook up my 360* rotating scraper / grader blade, or for that matter fire up my Komatsu bulldozer and knock out the job, then use the rake to cover my dozer tracks. Besides that, the lift arms on my tractor are not designed for down pressure. I think it best for me not to test their limits by doing something they were not designed for. I seem to remember someone breaking a lift arm doing something they were not supposed to, but he fixed it better than new, so I guess it wasn't all that bad after all. Anyway thanks for posting on page 23 of this thread, I can't believe it, page 23 What a marathon build this thing turned out to be, it sparked quite a discussion on a few topics, and I learned allot, especially about powder coating, plus invented a new redneck powder coating technique that may one day become acceptable standard practice, well for me anyway.

Larry

 

[scrout]

Should not be a problem unless you loan your tools to friends....
One solution would be a simple spring loaded pin/roller right at the dead point which would prevent the boom settling there, a spring would make it go one way or the other at a breakover point. Just a thought. Awesome fab skills.

Hi J.J. -
OK got it, in other words; Bottom dead center of the cylinder stroke when it's being rotated to change direction. At that point, the angle of the tines is so great it could not be used to rake in that position. As demonstrated in the video, when rotating the tines as long as I change direction on the valve fast enough, the inertia / momentum rotates the tine assembly past that bottom dead center point. I got it "stuck" there a few times practicing until I got the timing down, all I had to do was give it a little nudge (by hand) past the bottom dead center point to get it "un-stuck". One time when it was "stuck" at that bottom dead center point, I had kept cycling the cylinder at full hydraulic power and nothing broke. The rotate cylinder is 2" diameter, the system hydraulic pressure relief valve is set to 2300 psi, if my calculations are correct, that's 7,222 PSI of pushing force available from the cylinder which is peanuts compared to the beefy construction, I think it will be OK.

Larry

 

[GuglioLS]

Should not be a problem unless you loan your tools to friends.... .

Scrout,
Ain't that the truth. Since I never loan my tool's out, it's not a problem. Maybe that's why I still have friends?

One solution would be a simple spring loaded pin/roller right at the dead point which would prevent the boom settling there, a spring would make it go one way or the other at a breakover point. Just a thought. Awesome fab skills.

Interesting idea, want to draw that up for me? I think you may have seen the video's where the blade is repeatedly reversed without a hitch? Just so long as I have the timing right when operating the valve, it reverses smoothly.
Thanks for the fab skills compliment.
Larry

 

[Renze]

Ain't that the truth. Since I never loan my tool's out, it's not a problem. Maybe that's why I still have friends?

Very true, Larry !!

I had big trouble with my brother last year, he's so much different than i am, but i like him anyways... Thats why i decided to not get involved in business or money with him anymore... We didnt get any trouble since then

 

[steveoutdoorrec]

I know I'm coming in a bit late on this thread having just found this forum of bad influences (meant in a good way of course ).

I used to powder coat for kodak before I was laid off back in '99 and my brother and his buddy made their own system to get a glass smooth finish on bike frames.

They made a box with a false bottom that was some material that had microscopic holes. Not sure what it was but they bought it in Buffalo,NY in the early '90s so it's not new tech.

They would suspend the frame from a hook on an eyebolt. Then put a welder ground on the part of the bolt that was outside the box. A metal grid just above the bottom of the box was hooked to the positive side of the welder. The powder was spread around the bottom of the box and it was sealed. When air was blown into the box under the false bottom using a compressor the powder would be blown into a cloud. Then the welder was turned on and as the powder passed by the grid it gained a positive charge and was attracted to the grounded metal frame. By varying the power and time the thickness of the coating could be controled.

Once coated the frame was hung in a homemade oven that was heated using a salamander. They actually used two old refridgerator boxes that had metal interiors for the oven one upside down on top of the other with the bottoms cut out and hinged for a door. But any insulated metal box would work. For large items a metal tool shed that was insulated might be just the thing.
I'd put a sheetmetal deflector just inside so that the blower on the salamader doesn't disrupt the powder before it begins to flow.

At kodak we had a mono-rail system to move parts from spray booth to oven. Really just two pieced of angle iron bolted together into an inverted T with metal wheels to run on. This would make moving a large part into and out of the oven and allow you to preheat the oven before moving the part in.
I can think of many used for one in a shop to help move large items around while keeping them at a comfortable work height.

One thing nice about powder is that you can blow or brush it out of any holes before curing so you don't have to mill it out later. For small holes use a pipe cleaner for larger holes a bottle brush. Takes a steady hand but easy to do. You can even use an air gun if you have deep holes and a VERY steady hand.

 

[spo307]

:licking: :thumbsup:

 

[GuglioLS]

:licking: :thumbsup:

Thanks

Here's a bit of an update.....

It's been almost 2 years since building this 7 foot robo rake. I finally got a chance to shoot and post some video trying it out on a little over a foot of snow that fell few weeks ago. Surprisingly It works as good pushing and plowing snow as it does raking rocks out of dry dirt. It also minimizes tearing up our asphalt milling driveway in the process. Equally important is the ability to change the angle and offset on the fly. Below is a compilation of video taken widening out our dive a few days after the "big one". As you might notice the central corridor of the dive had already been plowed a few days earlier. I need to keep the drive as wide as possible because we keep getting anywhere from 6" to 12" of new snow every week and need to have a place to put it. As I write this it's snowing yet again in the mountains of New Mexico.

This is a video so click on the picture itself to watch.....



Larry

 

[jenkinsph]

Larry,
Very nice landscape rake, I may have to do something similar.
I am about tapped out on the snow for one year, it looks like your area is gonna get hit tonight. I am expecting to see it in the next hour or so in Ruidoso.

Thought I would mention that Pace Iron in south Albuquerque has an excellent setup for powder coating if you need it. I have had them do some large jobs for me and they are great to work with.

 

[tugboat-2]

Good grief boys,...you tryin to ruin your image or what? Geeeze I hate to show my "geographical-plumb-ignorance" here but,...snow in New Mexico?? Heaven sake we always stop for lunch in Albuquerque enroute to Tucson from Canada and enjoyed the beautiful weather there.

Now you are talking snow??? Oh yes I just went back and read it again and I see its up in the New Mexico "Mountains",......ok then I understand. You had me scratchin my head there. Sorry. I love your part of the country but I think I'll avoid the mountains since we come down to get away from the white stuff!

Although on second thought,...that might be kinda nice to get up in the high country to cool off and plow a bit of snow, ..then drive down below and enjoy the nice weather!!! Perhaps I'll envy you after all?

CHEERS!
. . tug