Tractor Sizing Large Compact or Small Utility Tractor

[hamdog]

I purchased a home last fall with 27 acres of land (5-7) acres of open meadow (potential to add another 5 acres of meadow and 12acres of pasture/woods), and 20acres of mixed woods. I知 looking to eventually start my own small farm (vegetables, fruit trees, xmas trees, few beef cows, chickens, etc) to carry me into retirement. I知 hoping this tractor will be my do all tractor, but understand it would be best to have more than one. Below is a list of items I will be doing:

Snow blow a 650FT-700FT driveway
Box blade / grade driveway
Brush hog meadows (using a rotary mower or flail), currently I have someone haying the meadow but not real reliable, hopefully in future hay myself
Potentially haying meadows (might buy an older tractor for bailing or mowing and use compact/small utility for
Logging woods for firewood
Clearing/cleaning up woods for sap lines and trails
Wood Chipping
Plowing/Harrowing areas for garden
Rototilling
Post hole digging
Trenching and digging with backhoe
Pallet forks
Bedding gardens
Loader work (compost, gravel, moving large rocks)
Landscape around yard (large yard approx -1.5 to 2 acres)

I'm torn between what size tractor I should get and what transmission and mfg I should go with. I use to own John deere tractors but they have priced themself right out of the market I believe, and starting to see Kubota do the same. Locally within 20min from my house I have a John Deere, Mahindra, Kubota, New Holland Dealer and Massey. Neither of these dealers have a great reputation. Within 1hr-15min I have the same dealers available with better reputations. Anyway I'm initialing looking at the following tractors, I have not received final pricing yet hoping to get that over the wknd:

Massey 1749 12x12 Power Shuttle
New Holland Boomer 47 and 50 16x16 Synchro Shuttle
Kubota MX5200 8x8 Synchro Shuttle
Kubota M5660 8x8 hydro shuttle

My gut is pushing me towards the MX5200 but I'm concerned if the lowest gear will be slow enough for a rototiller or garden bedder, also I'm concerned with the dry clutch. I wish Kubota had the hydroshuttle option in this size tractor. The M5660 I think might be a little over kill for what I need along with price. I also would like to be able to trailer the tractor easily and pull with a 1/2ton truck, I can upgrade to a 3/4ton but hate to. I think the M5660 would be able to do everything I want plus hay in the future. The New Holland's I can't find much for review on them or there low range speed with the 16x16 synchro, they do not state whether these have a dry or wet clutch. I'm concerned with their reliability. The Massey is a great little package, but the dealers around here seem to be slowly diminishing and the closet dealer is very small so I'm concerned with future service and support. Also I've read that the new loaders with the 1700 series are weak and slow.

I apologize for the long read, but hopefully you guys can help persuade me in the right direction. Thank you!

 

[ning]

I can only speak to the truck part of this - the smallest tractor you've got in that list is probably 3500 pounds by itself, the largest 4500 - and this doesn't include any implements, not even the FEL. Don't forget to add the weight of the trailer to this, plus the weight of the FEL and anything else you're going to have on the trailer - I don't think you're towing this safely with a 1/2t and probably not comfortably with a 3/4t.

That's not to say not to buy, just reconsider the trailering need and method.

 

[Goose69]

Your usages sound a lot like what mine are.
I was looking at all the colors.
Settled on the Massey 2706e in a hydro version. Mostly because the dealer I purchased from is awesome, and the cost of the tractor per horsepower was less than the competition.
(Yes, I know there is more to tractor buying than HP)
...It has all the power I need, and is big enough to handle all my hay equipment. I have not pulled a big round baler with it, but it handles small square baler with ease..

..I've not noticed any loader issues, I know it has the power to peel the teeth off of an Artillian front hoe bucket. Happened the second time I used it.
And is fast enough for me.
.. Also the turbo charged engine on it, does not require DPF, or use DEF.

..I did like the Kubota M5200 as well and it would do everything my Massey does i am sure. It would have just cost thousands more.
But if you like your Kubota dealer better than the Massey dealer, I think it would be a good choice.

As far as for landscaping, it's a lot of tractor to navigate around the house. If I had the money, I would buy a mini tractor for around the house landscaping, but I have been making do with what I've got.

 

[jeff9366]

I purchased a home last fall with 27 acres of land (5-7) acres of open meadow (potential to add another 5 acres of meadow and 12 acres of pasture/woods), and 20acres of mixed woods. Looking to eventually start my own small farm (vegetables, fruit trees, xmas trees, few beef cows, chickens, etc) to carry me into retirement. Hoping this tractor will be my do all tractor, but understand it would be best to have more than one. Below is a list of tasks I will be doing:

Snow blow a 650FT-700FT driveway
As a Floridian, I have no clue on snow issues.

Box blade / grade driveway
Compare a Land Plane Grading Scraper to a Box Blade and decide which implement will work best for you.
VIDEO: land plane grading scraper - YouTube

Bush hog five to ten acres of meadows (using a rotary mower or flail), currently I have someone haying the meadow but not real reliable, hopefully in future hay myself.
Ten acres of hay land is not sufficient to profitably raise and bale hay. Perhaps raise and cut hay, but continue to have someone else bale. As haying is weather dependent, it will always be difficult to find someone to work hay when you want the hay work done. Taking care of their own land first, then larger customers second, will the the priorities. Hard cheese, but so it is.

Logging woods for firewood
I like to do this. You may like to do this. Probably not worth your time as a business unless you value your time at $3/hour.

Clearing/cleaning up woods for sap lines and trails
Ratchet Rake for your FEL bucket. Knocking down verdure with Ratchet Rake makes it much easier to chop with your Bush Hog.
VIDEO: ratchet rake brush clearing - YouTube

Wood Chipping
Probably not practical for the acreage you have. Burning is much more time and equipment efficient.

Plowing/Harrowing areas for garden; Rototilling
Disc Harrows and PTO powered roto-tillers are both soil mixing and soil leveling implements. Plow and Disc Harrow OR roto-tiller, not all three.

Post hole digging. YES

Trenching and digging with backhoe
If $7,500 for a Backhoe is in the budget, wonderful. Trenching and digging on a residential farm can be accomplished with bucket spade attachment and Three Point Hitch implements for <$1,000.

Pallet forks YES. SSQA pallet forks, not clamp on.
VIDEO: Skid Steer Quick Attach - YouTube

Bedding gardens
Most Cultivators have modular bedders as options.
VIDEO: How To Use Your Garden Bedder - YouTube


Loader work (compost, gravel, moving large rocks)
HST transmission, not gear. R4/industrial tires for sharp rocks in Vermont. R4s are normally six ply. You may wish to special order eight or ten ply R4/industrial tires in Vermont.
For rocky soil in Vermont buy the optional Heavy-Duty, Round-Back bucket.

Landscape around yard (large yard approx -1.5 to 2 acres) YES. You do not need a Backhoe for landscaping.

I'm torn between what size tractor I should get and what transmission and mfg I should go with. I use to own John Deere tractors but they have priced themself right out of the market I believe, and starting to see Kubota do the same. Locally within 20 min from my house I have John Deere, Mahindra, Kubota, New Holland Dealer and Massey. None of these dealers have a great reputation. Within 1hr-15min I have the same dealers available with better reputations.
Do you have the skills, desire to do your own tractor maintenance?
~~ Bear in mind that Kubota has somewhere around 50% market share in the tractor size you are considering. Kubota has not priced their product out of consideration for 50% of tractor consumers.

I'm looking at the following tractors:

Kubota MX5200 8x8 Synchro Shuttle

Go with HST transmission. Clutch jobs are $1,400 each. If anyone but yourself will operate the tractor, believe me, HST will be more reliable than gear. HST + three ranges = fine speed control at low end. HST is much better for loader work. Very little market for used gear tractors in sizes under consideration.

I am just shy of 70 years old. I had two basic tractors before my current Kubota Grand L. As you age, your body will greatly appreciate the productivity and comfort enhancements on the Grand Ls. If you buy a basic tractor, what you save on the purchase you will spend on Physical Therapy.

The MX series and larger Grand Ls share the same chassis and engine block. The MX are sparsely outfitted to present a low price. The Gand Ls have EVERYTHING. You never read here that anyone who has purchased a Grand L regrets spending the money after operating a Grand L fifty hours.

 

[Clemson327]

I also settled on a 2706e except with the 8x8 shuttle transmission. I looked at just about every major brand, and it came out on top due to ergonomics, standard features, and the most horsepower for the money with capacities as good or better than everything else.

 

[Tractorable]

While you're looking at different brands don't forget to check out the new Yanmar YT359. 100+ year old Japanese company that supplies most engines for John Deere. Plus, they build the whole tractor, a rarity these days.

 

[Turbys_1700]

If you are considering a shuttle look at the larger Workmaster 50. If not I would go with either the MX or M5660. The Workmaster will cost less due in part to the 8 speed shuttle transmission. The M5660 is a premium tractor and priced according but IMHO worth it for the hydraulic shuttle.

 

[hamdog]

Ning- I will most likely need to get a 3/4ton but the Tundras are rated for almost 10k pounds.....Goose69 and Clemson327 I was quoted a Massey 2706e last year and the best they would do was $35,000 with only one remote and loaded tires. It's definitely an option. ......Tractorable unfortunately I have no yanmar tractor dealers around.

Jeff9366 I don't know if I want a HST again. I'm concerned of them holding up to ground engaging work and I don't like the power loss. The bedder I was looking at was a plastic mulcher, the style sold by everything attachments is what I would use for my garlic. I would use bottom plow and harrows for breaking fresh sod, then use rototilling to smooth it. Then plows again every couple years to break up compaction. I already have a John Deere 550 offset rototiller I bought of previous owners, hoping I can offset enough to use in larger compact or smaller utility. Also I will be getting a grapple to clear woods, lots of brush and large tree branches down, would like to gather and rent a chopper or buy one for tractor so I can use chips for mulch. Firewood/logging is for my house only, I heat solely with wood.

I'm torn between the size tractor I should make an investment on. Landscaping duties I can handle with wheel barrel and shovel, larger holes can do with a backhoe on tractor.

Anyone have experience rototilling with M5660 or MX 5200 8x8 or Boomer 16x16? Thanks!

 

[Turbys_1700]

I have listed for you the breakdown in speeds for my Workmaster 50. It is an 8 speed tractor with specifications very similar to the MX5200 and M5660. I would expect that their speed breakdowns would be very similar. The specifications page list this for 14.9x28 rear tires at 2600 RPM. I don't know if the speed in first gear is satisfactory for rototilling or not. I am sure other more experienced doing this will chime in.

1st: 1.8 MPH
2nd: 2.7 MPH
3rd: 4.0 MPH
4th: 5.5 MPH
5th: 6.5 MPH
6th: 9.7 MPH
7th: 14.4 MPH
8th: 19.8 MPH

Don't over stress this purchase. Any of the 4 tractors you are looking at are fine choices and should give you many years of trouble free service.

 

[boggen]

large road bail feeding any live stock = FEL lift height and capacity (loading/unloading off of a trailer) (going to push tractor to larger HP rating)

backhoe.... you will be looking for a TLB (tractor loader backhoe). something with a "sub frame" and were the backhoe comes off to access a 3pt hitch. with that said. look for a TLB were you do a 180 in seat to switch between driving tractor and operating backhoe. this little seat 180 and access to 3pt hitch is going to limit your "tractor options from the various brands"

i would also forget bailing such a small field. cash crop it out to someone else. or pay someone else to deal with it. it is an extra increase in tractor PTO to run some of them bailers. you need more maintenance, than just pure HP and pure PTO HP and pure weight tractor. to big of a tractor can eat you up on all the small little jobs of maintenance and trying to manuver around the property. not saying larger is not better, but there needs to be a compromise some place. or less ya just want to spew out cash.

==========
an attempt to talk ya into HST and/or like hydraulic transmission.

a lot of your maintenance / chore work = forward / backwards driving, and varying your speed a lot. your not hoping into a truck/car and going on the freeway/highway for 30 plus minutes at a constant speed. or hoping in a larger field tractor and going at it for 1 plus hours at a time at a constant speed. but constant changing directions, turning, inching up slowly and around stuff. if you get a backhoe, grapple, post hole digger, garden, etc.... again you are not doing long constant runs, but short runs. get yourself an HST or like hydraulic transmission. (no manual / gear transmission). ya you loose a little bit of power. but the times you will really need extra pure HP, and traction, and weight, might be trying to skid/drag some large tree, that you are to lazy to chop up a couple more times to reduce its over all weight, or trying to use a bailer. everything else. is were your primary usage most likely will be. why suffer for the very little bit of usage. were you can just take a little more time cutting, or like.

the couple times i really wanted a gear tractor. is when i gotta drive from one corner of 80 acre property, to the other opposite corner of property, (up and down hills, around sharp turns, through gates, need to take extra long path around stuff so i do not damage finished mowed grass) amounts up to about 2 miles this rarely happens. even then. i am constantly adjusting speed. to deal with given change in dirt lanes, gravely driveway, sharp turns. rarely am i actually allowed to set and forget cruise control type of doing.

the other time i really wanted gear tractor. is when i had to move a good amount of dirt. bucket full of dirt in FEL and bucket full of dirt in backhoe bucket. and having to drive "slower" so i would not get tractor a rocking, and cause pot holes and bumps in the dirt roads, gravel driveway, grass lane areas. a cruise control option would have been better for this. and better yet having a dump trailer or dump truck. but had non of the 3, this rarely ever happens. once or twice in how many years.

on other hand. the ford 333c TLB i have, has hydrualic shuttle shift. with lever near stearing wheel for backwards/forward direction, along with same speed forwards and backwards. both options highly love. due to some times, it is easier to drive forward, and then reverse a long distance and then finally turn some to get into a given spot. vs having to turn around at each location.

dirt work or driveways, dirt lane, etc.. somehow always manages me end up driving backwards/forwards. more so when coming in at different directions, and going 1 tire width at a time. to try and compact dirt.

being able to barely inch forward and backwards. so i can get up nice and close to sheds, fence posts, getting bucket just right to do something.

 

[jeff9366]

I would use bottom plow and harrows for breaking fresh sod, then use rototilling to smooth it. Then plow again every couple years to break up compaction. I already have a John Deere 550 offset rototiller, hoping I can offset enough to use in larger compact or smaller utility.

Consider Unverferth "Perfecta": Cultivating with a Perfecta - YouTube

"Perfecta" Specs: Perfecta Field Cultivators - Unverferth Seedbed Tillage

https://media.unverferth.com/unverferth/tillage/perfecta-field-cultivator.pdf

I speculate a Perfecta would not foster plow pan. Perfecta appears time efficient and fuel efficient.

 

[hamdog]

Also I don't believe I stated this but to keep cost down I'm sticking with an open station tractor, would love a cab but the added cost and fear of breaking a window working in the thick woods has veered me away.

 

[newbury]

Your last post was very significant.

Also I don't believe I stated this but to keep cost down I'm sticking with an open station tractor, would love a cab but the added cost and fear of breaking a window working in the thick woods has veered me away.

I was a Vermont resident from 1958 until 1979 and still have a 73 acre piece of it in East Fletcher. An open station tractor may make you reluctant to operate during "snow season". Sure you will get out there and blow snow but a lot of other chores may get "put off".
Now I realize Vermont has warmed up since I left, but "snow season" used to be September through May.

Unless you have a great need/want for a backhoe I suggest a cab would be worth far more, just be careful of the windows.

I purchased a home last fall with 27 acres of land (5-7) acres of open meadow (potential to add another 5 acres of meadow and 12acres of pasture/woods), and 20acres of mixed woods. I知 looking to eventually start my own small farm (vegetables, fruit trees, xmas trees, few beef cows, chickens, etc) to carry me into retirement. I知 hoping this tractor will be my do all tractor, but understand it would be best to have more than one. Below is a list of items I will be doing:

Snow blow a 650FT-700FT driveway
Box blade / grade driveway
Brush hog meadows (using a rotary mower or flail), currently I have someone haying the meadow but not real reliable, hopefully in future hay myself
Potentially haying meadows (might buy an older tractor for bailing or mowing and use compact/small utility for

As others wrote, a small hay operation is very expensive.

Logging woods for firewood
Clearing/cleaning up woods for sap lines and trails
Wood Chipping
Plowing/Harrowing areas for garden
Rototilling
Post hole digging
Trenching and digging with backhoe

Buy/rent a used excavator

Pallet forks
Bedding gardens
Loader work (compost, gravel, moving large rocks)
Landscape around yard (large yard approx -1.5 to 2 acres)

I'm torn between what size tractor I should get and what transmission and mfg I should go with. I use to own John deere tractors but they have priced themself right out of the market I believe, and starting to see Kubota do the same. Locally within 20min from my house I have a John Deere, Mahindra, Kubota, New Holland Dealer and Massey. Neither of these dealers have a great reputation. Within 1hr-15min I have the same dealers available with better reputations. Anyway I'm initialing looking at the following tractors, I have not received final pricing yet hoping to get that over the wknd:

Massey 1749 12x12 Power Shuttle
New Holland Boomer 47 and 50 16x16 Synchro Shuttle
Kubota MX5200 8x8 Synchro Shuttle
Kubota M5660 8x8 hydro shuttle

My gut is pushing me towards the MX5200 but I'm concerned if the lowest gear will be slow enough for a rototiller or garden bedder, also I'm concerned with the dry clutch. I wish Kubota had the hydroshuttle option in this size tractor. The M5660 I think might be a little over kill for what I need along with price. I also would like to be able to trailer the tractor easily and pull with a 1/2ton truck, I can upgrade to a 3/4ton but hate to. I think the M5660 would be able to do everything I want plus hay in the future. The New Holland's I can't find much for review on them or there low range speed with the 16x16 synchro, they do not state whether these have a dry or wet clutch. I'm concerned with their reliability. The Massey is a great little package, but the dealers around here seem to be slowly diminishing and the closet dealer is very small so I'm concerned with future service and support. Also I've read that the new loaders with the 1700 series are weak and slow.

I apologize for the long read, but hopefully you guys can help persuade me in the right direction. Thank you!

As much as I like having a backhoe in your situation I'd trade for a cab and HST.

The MX5200 is close in size to my M4700:


And would do well for all your needs, but you will want HST and a cab.

And as far as trailering you need to add in all the attachments and things like loaded tires etc. for weight, I'm pretty sure my M4700 weight almost doubled when I added in loaded tires, FEL, bucket, chipper, fuel, chains etc.

 

[Oldoak]

hamdog, of the four tractors you listed, I would go with the Kubota MX5200 8x8 Synchro Shuttle. Which also appears to be your gut feeling. I am not a fan of hydros accept in a garden tractor.

Although, price wise, I don't think Kabota are any cheaper than J.Deere.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would also urge you to go with HST. I have a Utility (LS P7010) with 20 F/20R gear drive with shuttle shift(have to clutch to shift) and believe me, it will wear on your knees after a while. The P7010 was too large to handle tight working spots although I have used it a lot in the woods and never broke any thing (so far). You do have to be careful about going under low hanging limbs, not so much for the glass but for the roof and lights.
After a year or so of ownership of the P7010, I found that lots of places I needed to get to, I couldn't so I found a second tractor was needed. Thanks to a fellow TBN member, I found a used (slightly with 68 hours) Kubota B26 TLB which is my go to tractor for almost all my work now. I put about 100 hours on my P 7010 the first year but have only put 56 on it in the last 6 years. I only use it for the extra heavy lifting and garden tilling with my 6 foot tiller which is a little too heavy for my B26 to handle. I do use my backhoe quite a bit still, mostly digging up rocks or tree stumps, cleaning out drainage ditches etc. I have recouped my money for the entire TLB purchase in the 450+ hours that I have used it so far although YMMV depending on how much work you have for a back hoe. If you don't plan to do a lot of backhoe work, you might consider investing the money in a cab rather than a backhoe attachment. If available, a rented excavator will do a lot of work in a short time period and is much more maneuverable. I like the fact that an excavator can swing 360 degrees rather than the 85-90 left or right for a backhoe. This is very handy when cleaning out a ditch or pond where you need to get your spoils back away from the edge of work.

As for haying, DONT DO IT. Equipment cost is way too much for that limited amount of hay even if you put the entire 27 acres in hay and used a small square baler, you still couldn't justify the cost of the equipment plus you would need a much larger tractor than all your other chores requires.
I really don't have any favorite tractor brand but I would think that a 40-45 HP (PTO) would be way more than you would need to do any chore that you have listed. My brother in law uses a New Holland 2910 to pull a 6 foot bush hog, lift round bales 3 high plus do all the FEL work that he needs on his cattle operation. I don't see that HST robs a lot of HP from CUT tractors since most if not all have more power than they have traction anyway. 3-4 HP from engine is not a significant amount for most instances and they are robust enough to handle all the ground engaging tasks that you would have PLUS be way easier on the legs when doing FEL work or even tight work with a mower that may require slow forward and reverse actions to get in and out of tight spots.
I think that if you try the HST, you will like it much better than a gear drive even a power shuttle type. I had a Yanmar with power shift and while good, it was not even close to working with HST especially in tight conditions where inching forward and reverse was needed. At the time, I thought the power shift was greatest thing until I got my HST tractor.

 

[audsp98]

I went with a Mahindra 3550 HST for my 33 acres. It's a large compact and works well for my needs, which are similar to what you listed. I also have the backhoe and do not regret the decision to purchase it with my tractor. I can work at my leisure to do the backhoe work. In my area, I saved thousands by going with Mahindra over Kubota and JD.

 

[hamdog]

Newbury, I live in Fairfield which is adjacent to Fletcher. The cold winters snow blowing and warm summers brush hogging does not bother me, yet. This year I plowed the driveway with a 4ft plow on an atv (big snow storms took me 4hrs). I'm not sold on a cab now, I'd rather take the money and put it into attachments.

As far as the HST, my dad has a Deere one series 1026 HST and what I don't like about the HST is your constantly adjusting throttle, I guess I could leave it at the higher RPM's. I do have many hours experience on a Deere 3320 HST and a Massey 1533 Powershuttle in my previous life. The HST is nice for close quarters yard work, loader work and snowblowing, but I like the powershuttle on the Massey as well. I feel these tractors are to small for the chores I have now.

Dealer support is going to the number deciding factor along with price on this purchase. The thing I need to do is see if they will be willing to let me use a tractor around my property for a wknd to see if the Synchroshuttle or HST is what I want. Thanks guys!

 

[hamdog]

I went with a Mahindra 3550 HST for my 33 acres. It's a large compact and works well for my needs, which are similar to what you listed. I also have the backhoe and do not regret the decision to purchase it with my tractor. I can work at my leisure to do the backhoe work. In my area, I saved thousands by going with Mahindra over Kubota and JD.

audsp98, have you had any issues with your 3550. I was looking at this unit as well, the dealer and MFG support though makes me nervous. I have heard mixed reviews. I priced a Mahindra 3540 PST last fall with loader, weighted tires and rear remotes, open station and they wanted $34,553 with 0%/84mos and for the 3550 PST $37,830 with 0%/84mos. These prices are higher than the MX5200.

 

[newbury]

Newbury, I live in Fairfield which is adjacent to Fletcher. The cold winters snow blowing and warm summers brush hogging does not bother me, yet. This year I plowed the driveway with a 4ft plow on an atv (big snow storms took me 4hrs). I'm not sold on a cab now, I'd rather take the money and put it into attachments.<snip>

Well then I know your territory. My land is on the west of RT 108 and the Bakersfield/Fletcher Town line is the northern boundary.


I wasn't trying to indicate that snow blowing would be a problem, but I've noticed as I get older things like sleet and cold affect my joints more. Thus when those conditions happen down in Mississippi I'm more liable to put off non-critical "tractor chores" (which only occurs a few times per year).

As far as HST vs gear - that's a real old argument. My B7610 is HST, my M4700 is shuttle-shift, I would have preferred an HST but that would have been at least several thousand more (I only paid about 12K for it in 2013). I don't have to do a lot of back and forth work with the M4700, rather lately it's been load it up, drive out to the trail, cut some trees and drag them back. Or run my rotary cutter, and that's very little back and forth.

But the couple of times I've "plowed" snow in Virginia with my B7610 I really appreciated the HST because it required a lot of back and forth work.

 

[hamdog]

I can most definitely see where hst transmission has it's benefits, and to be quite honest I'm still between the two. I'm now wondering if I take the $10k for a backhoe and invest into a mini ex in lieu of? The only issue is loosing out on the 0% financing that most companies are running right now.