Large PTO chipper

[bigsnowdog]

I have a lot of thinning of white pines to do, as in roughly 300-400. These trees are roughly 30 feet tall and about 10 inches at the base. In the past I have cut conifers down and left them lying on the ground for several years, then broken them up and scraped them off with a loader tractor. Pine seems to rot away rather quickly.

Currently, a situation with pine beetles means you can't leave them lie, as the dead trees make good habitat for the beetles. They need to be chipped or burned. I am going to experiment with an attempt to start a fire with green pine using diesel and dry wood to get it really going. Then, we will see if once going you can continue feeding the fire green wood and have it continue.

My real wish is for a serious PTO-driven chipper. I have a John Deere 5500 which is rated at 73 PTO HP. It seems the biggest chipper I can run with that is a 10 inch. Review of the available machines causes me to be looking at Wallenstein and Farmi/Valby. I believe hydraulic feed would be good.

I am hoping to be able to find one used, but realize that may be unlikely. Even with the 10 inch machines I may have to cut the butts off some of the stems to get the bulk of the stems to run through the chipper. Anything smaller would just make my problem worse.

What experience have you had with these machines? Any useful thoughts for me in this situation?

 

[deereman75]

salsco also makes a nice 10 inch one you might want to look at.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

Around here the chip market is taking off and they were around $40 ton for chip wood, they are know chipping the pads of the butt ends from the processors now, so every bit counts. The size of chipper and the engine to drive it and all the fuel to run it makes it expensive. You might try to see if anybody around there is into the chip market so you can at least get some payback for hog fuel or for pellets.

David Kb7uns

 

[bigsnowdog]

Around here the chip market is taking off and they were around $40 ton for chip wood, they are know chipping the pads of the butt ends from the processors now, so every bit counts. The size of chipper and the engine to drive it and all the fuel to run it makes it expensive. You might try to see if anybody around there is into the chip market so you can at least get some payback for hog fuel or for pellets.

David Kb7uns

I like your idea, but a problem I believe I would have is for someone like that to come in with equipment you would have to have all or most of your material staged and ready. I don't have any way to do that all at once, and if you let it lay in the staging, then you have the beetle problem.

 

[greg_g]

Around here the timber buyers would harvest them for you (as pulpwood). Besides putting a little money in your pocket, it saves you the aggravation of trying to resell a used chipper.

//greg//

 

[bigsnowdog]

Around here the timber buyers would harvest them for you (as pulpwood). Besides putting a little money in your pocket, it saves you the aggravation of trying to resell a used chipper.

//greg//

I keep liking the idea. One issue, however, is it would not be a matter of simply coming in and taking out rows and rows. at a time. This is thinning, and they are crowded, so it would be slow. I don't think with an operation like that you could just trust them to do the right thing, either. All they care about is their material, not how my planting turns out after the devastation.

 

[hayden]

Commercial chippers in the 10-12" range have huge engines - 100HP+ - so I'd be concerned that you would be under powered. I have a Salsco 6" PTO chipper with a speed sensor that pauses the feeder when the RPMs drop too low. With 5-6" stems the pause control kicks in regularly, indicating it's overloading the tractor engine. I've got about 50 HP at the PTO, so I don't think 73HP will be enough to eat those threed. At a minimum, be certain to have one of these pause controls so you are not stalling all the time.

Also, how would you feed these 10" x 30' trees into the chipper? Dragging a 5" tree and getting it up into the hopper and fed in enough for the power feeder to grab it is exhausting work. I'd think a 10" tree would have to be bucked up into pretty short chunks to handle.

Bottom line is if you are going to do the chipping yourself, I'd seriously consider renting a big drag-behind chipper for a day. Besides, how much does 10" PTO chipper cost? $10k-$15k?

 

[bigsnowdog]

Commercial chippers in the 10-12" range have huge engines - 100HP+ - so I'd be concerned that you would be under powered. I have a Salsco 6" PTO chipper with a speed sensor that pauses the feeder when the RPMs drop too low. With 5-6" stems the pause control kicks in regularly, indicating it's overloading the tractor engine. I've got about 50 HP at the PTO, so I don't think 73HP will be enough to eat those threed. At a minimum, be certain to have one of these pause controls so you are not stalling all the time.

Also, how would you feed these 10" x 30' trees into the chipper? Dragging a 5" tree and getting it up into the hopper and fed in enough for the power feeder to grab it is exhausting work. I'd think a 10" tree would have to be bucked up into pretty short chunks to handle.

Bottom line is if you are going to do the chipping yourself, I'd seriously consider renting a big drag-behind chipper for a day. Besides, how much does 10" PTO chipper cost? $10k-$15k?

Around here all you can rent is a 6 inch, and that is $200 or a little more per day. I have lots of days, if you get my meaning.

They would have to be delimbed. Yes, it would be a lot of work. My alternative is to give up and let the trees die. I am not willing to do that. I have been working this planting for 17 years. After that length of time I am not going to turn away from it.

I understand your horsepower concern. Given the load sensing feature it could moderate itself. The alternative is a smaller one, an alternative with a lot of disadvantage. A particular value in a larger chipper is that it could take stems with stubs that required the 10 inch throat, but would not be full thickness pieces of material. The 73 HP would do just fine with that.

There is a whole lot about this situation that is unworkable and impractical, but it is the hand I have been dealt.

I am just casting about for ideas and do certainly appreciate everyone's input.

 

[JimP]

a 10 inch PTO chipper is going to be one big heavy unit.

Can you tow a trailer in to the trees? If so you might try looking for a used commercial trailer chipper like a vermeer, morbark or bandit. They make diesel models that will pull in and chip a 10 inch tree. Just tow the chipper to the site, no 3 point set up, and with 2 vehicles your tractor can be used to move wood to the chipper.

 

[hayden]

Around here all you can rent is a 6 inch, and that is $200 or a little more per day. I have lots of days, if you get my meaning.

They would have to be delimbed. Yes, it would be a lot of work. My alternative is to give up and let the trees die. I am not willing to do that. I have been working this planting for 17 years. After that length of time I am not going to turn away from it.

I understand your horsepower concern. Given the load sensing feature it could moderate itself. The alternative is a smaller one, an alternative with a lot of disadvantage. A particular value in a larger chipper is that it could take stems with stubs that required the 10 inch throat, but would not be full thickness pieces of material. The 73 HP would do just fine with that.

There is a whole lot about this situation that is unworkable and impractical, but it is the hand I have been dealt.

I am just casting about for ideas and do certainly appreciate everyone's input.

Well, if you've got the time and a load sensor, I don't see why it can't be done. Renting makes most sense (often the only time it makes sense) is when you can concentrate the work into a lump of time. Many of us can't do that or don't want to do it, and that's where owning is a real convenience and ultimately a money save. That's certainly why I own a chipper - my use is scattered about in smallish chunks of time.

By the way, good point about a bigger throat being helpful for chipping smaller stuff. It really does help, especially fitting in material with side branches and odd shapes.

 

[bigsnowdog]

a 10 inch PTO chipper is going to be one big heavy unit.

Can you tow a trailer in to the trees? If so you might try looking for a used commercial trailer chipper like a vermeer, morbark or bandit. They make diesel models that will pull in and chip a 10 inch tree. Just tow the chipper to the site, no 3 point set up, and with 2 vehicles your tractor can be used to move wood to the chipper.

I would also look for a used PTO unit. The engine driven one is going to be a lot more money, meaning a lot less affordable.

I have looked at the weight of the 10 inch units and the lift capacity of the 5500 and it would handle it fine.

 

[Greenpole bandit]

I have an 8" woodmax with hydraulic feed and I have been using it for about 40 hours . I have it attached to my Mahindra 5035 with 47 pot HP and have chipped very similar materials to what you are talking about. I cut the trunk down so the are about 6" and it pulls the rest in with no problem. I am very satisfied with this chipper and it sounds like this would be a good tool for what your are trying to do. You can then just burn the logs or have someone pick them up for free firewood.

 

[bigsnowdog]

I have an 8" woodmax with hydraulic feed and I have been using it for about 40 hours . I have it attached to my Mahindra 5035 with 47 pot HP and have chipped very similar materials to what you are talking about. I cut the trunk down so the are about 6" and it pulls the rest in with no problem. I am very satisfied with this chipper and it sounds like this would be a good tool for what your are trying to do. You can then just burn the logs or have someone pick them up for free firewood.

These are conifers? You mean you are cutting it so the thickest end of your piece is 6 inches and it still has all of its branches? The chipper pulls that through?

 

[LarryD]

Why coudn't you just drop the trees and limb them on the ground, haul the logs to a place a self loader can get to, and sell them? I would think if you started at the back of the lot and worked your way out all you would have left is piles of slash. Then get a smaller (6") chipper and go to work.

Find a local guy with a self loader and have him come take a look. All you need at any time is one load for the truck. Do it in stages. Could be some cash to offset the cost of the chipper.

 

[bigsnowdog]

Why coudn't you just drop the trees and limb them on the ground, haul the logs to a place a self loader can get to, and sell them? I would think if you started at the back of the lot and worked your way out all you would have left is piles of slash. Then get a smaller (6") chipper and go to work.

Find a local guy with a self loader and have him come take a look. All you need at any time is one load for the truck. Do it in stages. Could be some cash to offset the cost of the chipper.

Nobody around here would buy white pine this small, you could not saw anything out of it. Timber buyers here only want hardwood saw logs or big white pines. Not little stuff like this.

I can't leave the limbs/slash on the ground due to the beetle habitat. It all has to be destroyed, meaning burned or chipped.

 

[LarryD]

Pulp buyers won't take logs? I can see a lumber mill not really wanting small logs like that.
I figured if you could cut and limb a load per week as well as chip then nothing would be on the ground long enough to help the beetle population.

 

[bigsnowdog]

Pulp buyers won't take logs? I can see a lumber mill not really wanting small logs like that.
I figured if you could cut and limb a load per week as well as chip then nothing would be on the ground long enough to help the beetle population.

I will certainly inquire, and would love to sell them, but I am not aware of any pulp log buyers in Iowa. And, given the time required for me to make up a semi load of those stems they would be on the ground too long for the beetle aspect of this.

 

[Treemonkey1000]

The cheapest way is to cut and push into a pile. Put some dry stuff in the middle. Add some diesel and torch with road flares. Have a big fan or leaf blower to get them good and hot. Once they get burning you can get very green stuff to burn as well. Chipping them doesn't kill the pine beetle eggs. A good hot fire will.
Try to stage the wood so you can push or throw more wood on as the fire burns.

 

[bigsnowdog]

The cheapest way is to cut and push into a pile. Put some dry stuff in the middle. Add some diesel and torch with road flares. Have a big fan or leaf blower to get them good and hot. Once they get burning you can get very green stuff to burn as well. Chipping them doesn't kill the pine beetle eggs. A good hot fire will.
Try to stage the wood so you can push or throw more wood on as the fire burns.

Oooooohhhhh. I like the leaf blower idea. I would never have thought of that.

I was told by my state's district forester that they could not live in chips. I have no prideful investment in that answer, but can you direct me to a source for that you are saying? It is a highly critical aspect of this.

The one method I have been pondering in parallel top the chipper question is the fire method you describe.

 

[Treemonkey1000]

Okay I would have thought that chipping would still let them eggs live. Still just burning sounds like the least labor intensive over cutting hauling and chipping. I do a lot chipping and it takes a lot of effort to feed the chipper. Especially if limbs and fluff get caught up in the feed chute. Even with hydraulic feed the stuff can clog up.
Pushing the stuff into piles grabbing some favorite beverage and let them burn. With the leaf blower if you can get some metal pipe to put closer into the core of the fire will help it burn. If you get the leaf blower too close it can get hot and melt down.