Laying Out A Fence Line

[downslope]

I have a rectangular piece of property that is approx 2000 ft X 500 ft. It has been surveyed and there are concrete monuments at each of the four corners. There is also a monument at the approximate midpoints of each of the short sides and one of the long sides. All sides are straight lines.

I am planning to erect a fence 1 ft inside of the property lines on all 4 sides. The fence line is mostly clear but there are some overhanging branches and overgrown brush in a few spots. There are also 6-12 fairly large trees that will probably have to be removed. All of the obstructions are on the long 2000 foot sides. I have been cleraring some of the brush and removing trees which are obviously on my land.

What I would like to know, is there a way I could lay out and accurate fence line without getting the surveyor back. Since I'm staying 1 ft in there will be some room for slight error. What I was thinking was to measure in say 1 to 3 ft on the short ends or whatever is required to have a clear line of sight along the long edges. Then I could place some stakes establishing a line 1-3 feet inside the property lines on the long sides. I would then measure back the required distance to determine where the fence goes and what trees have to be removed.

Is there some sort of laser device that I could purchase or rent for a reasonable price that would allow me to establish the straight lines a known distance inside the actual property boundries? Or any other way or ways to go about this task, like stretching a length of polywire and letting it rest on some smooth pvc pipe to keep if off the ground?:confused2:

 

[Dmace]

I would buy a bundle of 1x1x36" or 48" grade stakes from your local lumber yard, measure in from your property line exactly 3',4',5' or whatever measure you need for a clear shot and pound in a grade stake. Do this every 50' or 100' or so and use small rope or string tied between them to give you a straight line guide.

Kind of like this:

 

[MMagis]

Measuring in “x” number of feet sounds like more additional work than needed, at least to me. I string my lines with a fishing rod/reel spooled with Dacron line. However, I’m not stringing lines that long, but I believe a spectra line would still work for you. This only works if the land is contoured such that you can see from one end to the other. Check with a local rental shop about renting a transit. This will help you establish a line of sight and tell you what trees need removed. Heck, you could even do it with a rifle scope, but again this is assuming you can see from one end to the other. Regarding where you place the fence, I would place it ON the line. Don’t cheat yourself out of that land.

 

[Dmace]

Regarding where you place the fence, I would place it ON the line. Don稚 cheat yourself out of that land.

Check with the local code inspector, most towns have a minimum setback from the property line for fences and the "good" side has to face your neighbors property as well. Plus there is usually a max height of fences.

In my local towns/cities the setback is 6".

 

[MMagis]

Check with the local code inspector, most towns have a minimum setback from the property line for fences and the "good" side has to face your neighbors property as well. Plus there is usually a max height of fences.

In my local towns/cities the setback is 6".

I don't live in town, so I'm not familiar with city codes. It sounds ridiculous to me to force someone to cheat themselves. 6" on a city lot it no big deal, but a foot over a large tract of land is a lot. Still, it sounds like it's worth checking into. If your'e not in town, check with the local township trustees regarding property line fence laws. They SHOULD know, but I'd do some backup research as well. Don't take any one persons word for it.

 

[BigE_]

I don't live in town, so I'm not familiar with city codes. It sounds ridiculous to me to force someone to cheat themselves. 6" on a city lot it no big deal, but a foot over a large tract of land is a lot. Still, it sounds like it's worth checking into. If your'e not in town, check with the local township trustees regarding property line fence laws. They SHOULD know, but I'd do some backup research as well. Don't take any one persons word for it.

Also beware of adverse possession: If you put your fence line 1'-3' away from the property line and the neighbor starts using your property at some point (think grazing animals, etc), they can claim adverse possession in some states. My parents lost a driveway due to this. Owned the driveway, neighbors put up a garage on their own property, but used the parents' driveway to get to it. No big deal, right? Except that it went on for 30 years, and when my parents wanted to close off the driveway which they no longer used, they couldn't, even though it was originally legally on their land.

 

[MMagis]

Also beware of adverse possession: If you put your fence line 1'-3' away from the property line and the neighbor starts using your property at some point (think grazing animals, etc), they can claim adverse possession in some states. My parents lost a driveway due to this. Owned the driveway, neighbors put up a garage on their own property, but used the parents' driveway to get to it. No big deal, right? Except that it went on for 30 years, and when my parents wanted to close off the driveway which they no longer used, they couldn't, even though it was originally legally on their land.

Exactly, that's why I wouln't waiver from the surveyed line by an inch. A lot of people don't realize this. Very good example.

 

[dave1949]

You may also take into account, how do you plan to maintain the fence line? You will need to cut brush,weeds and saplings that are growing in the fence, etc. If you want to keep it mowed, that's another issue.

I would either put the fence on or as close to the actual property line as code permits - OR - I would lay in from the line far enough to get my mowing equipment on the outside of the fence and still be on your own property.

If you want to maintain the fence line, offsetting by 1' to 3' may just be making hard manual work out of the tending the outside of the fence if you intend to keep it clean.

If you decide to offset from the line, I would use the monuments directly to stretch a line or layout stakes, then measure in from that line the offset distance for each fence post you set. Once you get a line of posts in, eyeball then from the end of the line, the out of place posts (if you made an error) will be very evident.
Dave.

 

[downslope]

You may also take into account, how do you plan to maintain the fence line? You will need to cut brush,weeds and saplings that are growing in the fence, etc. If you want to keep it mowed, that's another issue.

I would either put the fence on or as close to the actual property line as code permits - OR - I would lay in from the line far enough to get my mowing equipment on the outside of the fence and still be on your own property.

If you want to maintain the fence line, offsetting by 1' to 3' may just be making hard manual work out of the tending the outside of the fence if you intend to keep it clean.

If you decide to offset from the line, I would use the monuments directly to stretch a line or layout stakes, then measure in from that line the offset distance for each fence post you set. Once you get a line of posts in, eyeball then from the end of the line, the out of place posts (if you made an error) will be very evident.
Dave.

The land is basically flat, so I have no problem getting a view from one end to the other.

I don't really plan on maintaining the fence, other than removing overhanging branches and any growth that will poke thru the fence.

This will be a high tensile deer exclusion fence and I have all local approvals that are required. The posts will be spaced 20 feet apart.

A contractor will do the install and he tells me all he requires is a clear line of sight from one corner to the next for him to set the posts.

The reason I can't stretch a line between the monuments is that right now the path isn't clear for the entire length, there are a few trees and some brush in the way; that's why I had the idea of stretching a line or using a transit or laser a few feet in where it's clear all the way. The only thing I have to be careful of is not to cut down one of the neighbors' trees.

I'm not really worried about adverse possession of 1 foot. Adverse possession is almost impossible to obtain in our state, and they just toughened up the law even more last year. A title company will insure full title if no more than one foot is outside the fence. I was really leaving one foot just in case I have to squeeze in there to do a repair and also so as not to have to deal with any big tree that may be right on the line. I'm dealing with 14 different neighbors bordering this fence.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[downslope]

You may also take into account, how do you plan to maintain the fence line? You will need to cut brush,weeds and saplings that are growing in the fence, etc. If you want to keep it mowed, that's another issue.

I would either put the fence on or as close to the actual property line as code permits - OR - I would lay in from the line far enough to get my mowing equipment on the outside of the fence and still be on your own property.

If you want to maintain the fence line, offsetting by 1' to 3' may just be making hard manual work out of the tending the outside of the fence if you intend to keep it clean.

If you decide to offset from the line, I would use the monuments directly to stretch a line or layout stakes, then measure in from that line the offset distance for each fence post you set. Once you get a line of posts in, eyeball then from the end of the line, the out of place posts (if you made an error) will be very evident.
Dave.

The land is basically flat, so I have no problem getting a view from one end to the other.

I don't really plan on maintaining the fence, other than removing overhanging branches and growth that will poke thru the fence.

This will be a high tensile deer exclusion fence and I have all local approvals that are required.

A contractor will do the install and he tells me all he requires is a clear line of sight from one corner to the next for him to set the posts.

The reason I can't stretch a line between the monuments is that right now the path isn't clear for the entire length, there are a few trees and some brush in the way; that's why I had the idea of stretching a line or using a transit or laser a few feet in where it's clear all the wayl The only thing I have to be careful of is not to cut down one of the neighbors' trees.

I'm not really worried about adverse possession of 1 foot. Adverse possession is almost impossible to obtain in our state, and they just toughened up the law even more last year. A title company will insure full title if no more than one foot is outside the fence. I was really leaving one foot just in case I have to squeeze in there to do a repair. I'm dealing with 14 different neighbors bordering this fence.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[tommu56]

Can you run an off set line say 10 or 20 ft or even further off the property line and measure back to clear your line of sight?

I would also try a laser level at night to see of it makes it through your brush it might get you close enough to clear a line of sight
tom

 

[dave1949]

With flat land, you shouldn't have a problem using a builder's transit or theodolite. The laser type allows you to work alone, the older optical type is very time consuming to use alone. Two people are always going to better than one however.

If you move in the same amount at each end of a side, then site down it and see/remove what is in the way, that should work.

Dave.

 

[powerpace]

I would consider getting a different fence contractor. It sounds like that type of fence will require felling and trimming trees no matter where the line is. Build as close to the line as legally required. Adverse possession is a problem even though it may be hard to enforce. Also if you have 14 different property owners bordering you that's 14 neighbors that can create a problem. Are any of those neighbors helping with the cost? Do they know you are building a fence?

 

[wroughtn_harv]

I build fences occasionally.

The way I lay out a two thousand foot line with obstacles in the way is with spotter posts.

I use two and three eighths inch light wall pipe because they're light enough to tote and with their thin walls easier to stab into the ground. On a long line like you're describing I will use some marking paint to color the post a contrasting color against the background. It it's blue sky then I'll use a flourescent orange or red, treeline or something dark I'll go with a white.

I go to each end and measure in from the survey pin a set distance. Shorter is easier to work with so if I can get away with three feet I'll use if over five or six feet. I stab in a marking post, seven footers work great, sixes are okay, eight footers if there's grade variances that cause a problem. I plumb up the posts (make them straight up and down with a level).

Then I go to the middle with a helper and another marking post. I have the helper move the post in or out plumb, plumb is important, again straight up and down. I then go to one end or the other and look down from one end post to the other. I move the helper in or out as required until the three posts are in a straight line. We stab that post into the ground and plumb it up. After checking it again for being in line we move to break up the distance again by the obstructions. We put in more marking posts in our line inside the property line on each side of the obstruction.

When we have all those in place we can then place new marking posts along the property line by measuring over exactly the same distance from our inside posts. I go for two inches inside the property line. It gives the property owner ownership of the fence even though the neighbor gets the benefit of it. The neighbor can't grow stuff on it or paint it because it isn't theirs. If the fence cost is being shared by both homeowners then the fence is placed on the property line.

Keep in mind different states have different rules. I've fenced in Arizona, California, Oklahoma, and Texas. The above works in those states. But I know that some states have different rules for their fence statues.

Once I have marker posts then I lay out my post spacing. Back in the day we used claw hammers. I still have a twenty eight ounce Eastwing with really rounded ears from marking post spacing. Now I use marking paint because I have it with me anyways because the locating companies want paint marks where the fence is going to go. Which brings up a very important point. BE SURE AND GET YOUR LOCATES!!! Some things are obvious like the telephone or gas lines should be in the right of way. Here in Texas the water lines can be anywhere, path of least resistance and day of the week matters when it comes to the water lines. Day of the week because some days the operator is more alert or less hung over than others when it came to operating the trencher.

With the spacing laid out, I use eight foot centers because I do a lot of pipe fencing and I get it in twenty four or thirty two foot lengths. With the spacing laid out I lay out the line. Again I use the sight or marker posts.

For the rookie or do it yourselfer I recommend the plumb man method. That's where you stand behind the end post and look down at the next marker post. The helper takes another marking post and puts it over the spacing mark and hold it plumb. You move him in or out and until it lines up with the next marking post. When he has it plumb and in line you have him mark the spot with your marking paint. The helper moves to the next post and you do it all over again.

I can do it with or without a helper. That's because I back sight. I hold my marking post and look down at the next two marking posts. When I have the marking post in my hand plumb and in line I mark it and move to the next one. I only use string on short lines when it would take longer to set up marking posts then it would to drive in some stakes and pull a string. Western fence men don't use strings. In fact a lot of fence companys will not even consider hiring a man who is used to using string. Everything is expected to be done by eye. (Texas for the most part isn't part of the west in that statement).

When people ask me about the string thing I point out that people who use a string invariably check their work by eye. We skip the string part and go straight to the eye from the get go. Another thing is the string will sag or sway in the wind no matter how tight you pull it. The eye has none of those problems.

After the posts are laid out with X's or crosses over each post hole then we do the posts. Once again it's all done by eye, height and line at the same time.

I hope this helps.

 

[LRTX1]

The reason I can't stretch a line between the monuments is that right now the path isn't clear for the entire length, there are a few trees and some brush in the way; that's why I had the idea of stretching a line or using a transit or laser a few feet in where it's clear all the way. The only thing I have to be careful of is not to cut down one of the neighbors' trees.

There is nothing wrong with your idea. Set several stakes along your line, with transit, rifle scope,or by eye, at reasonable intervals. If needed string between those, less wind and sag in the shorter distances. Pull your offset back from you short length of string. Like you said be sure before you cut someone else's trees. Have you talked to the neighboring land owners? Some of them may not mind some of their brush cleared.




As far as setting the fence on the property line and not "cheating" yourself out of that 6" or foot. What is anyone going to do on a foot wide peice of land next to the fence? It is pretty much unusable with the fence there. I know the adverse possesion laws and don't think you would have anything to worry about under normal circumstances.


The way I would set my corner posts for my fence would be as follows. Place the heel of your foot on your property monument and point your toes half way between the east-west line and the north-south line. Place your post at your toes. This will give you roughly 7-10 inches of set back. It also makes it extremly easy to find your property monuments at a later time. You always have your foot with you.

 

[RxRatedZ71]

We have just under 9 acres and it runs 292 by 1310 with a 12 ft creek dividing it front to back. Before closing on my property, I asked that it be pinned and marked at the corners and that the sellers pay for that cost. After that, I contacted the surveying company and payed $400 for them to re-survey the property and pin the sides about every 150 to 200 feet. Our topography prevented us from using line of sight greater than 500 or 600 feet.

I got some t-posts and white PVC pipe and drove a post at each pin. I slid the white pipe over the t-post and used it as a "range rod". With enough of them in a row, you can return to a corner marker and line up the posts. When they overlap each other visually, you can see the objects that are in the way.

With the property line established, I approached the utility company about installing a pole line to get electricity to my construction site. They needed a 20ft easement and I lucked out in this regards b/c they contacted the neighbor and explained that I was going to fence our property. They asked if he would be willing to give any easement for the utilities, which he authorized 5 feet on his side in exchange for me paying for all of the fence. I put up a 4 ft field fence with 10ft spacing on the t-posts and dual-strands of barbed wire. After installing the posts and attempting to pull about 100ft of the field fence, I ended up paying a fencing company to pull the wire