Leak in slate roof, use JD4310/430 + to access
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- john deere 4310
The issue with things like plywood is that it contacts the roof at a relatively small number of high points on a very irregular slate surface. The number of contact points is unknowable, but they take the entire weight applied to the rigid sheet. The tendency there is to successively stress the individual slate to failure and move on to the next.
To the outside observer, this would most likely appear as an instantaneous failure of a number of slates and then it would be stable. If not moved even a little bit. There is extreme force multiplication at point contacts.
The foam rubber over the length of the ladder has better prospects.
To the outside observer, this would most likely appear as an instantaneous failure of a number of slates and then it would be stable. If not moved even a little bit. There is extreme force multiplication at point contacts.
The foam rubber over the length of the ladder has better prospects.
Yes I understand the "no-pressure" and that mine does put pressure on it. (maybe use foam under the plywood in the above suggestion.)
How much money do you have for the project? Large crane from the front yard to hoist you up (using a safety harness) up over the roof and lower you down... if you are small enough, I can mail you the safety harness... (seriously).
How much money do you have for the project? Large crane from the front yard to hoist you up (using a safety harness) up over the roof and lower you down... if you are small enough, I can mail you the safety harness... (seriously).
NC,
Inside access is not really possible and is not the way to seal a roof leak in any event. Blocking water after it has penetrated the exterior membrane is a recipe for rot in the roof deck.
Even if this were suitable, the pipe is 20' from the only crawlspace in the attic, 40' from attic access, thru 2' of blown fiberglass, with a path between rafters. Wouldn't do that even if I accepted the issue of sealing on the wrong side of the membrane.
Inside access is not really possible and is not the way to seal a roof leak in any event. Blocking water after it has penetrated the exterior membrane is a recipe for rot in the roof deck.
Even if this were suitable, the pipe is 20' from the only crawlspace in the attic, 40' from attic access, thru 2' of blown fiberglass, with a path between rafters. Wouldn't do that even if I accepted the issue of sealing on the wrong side of the membrane.
JoeL4330
Platinum Member
try this link EASYLIFT Tracked Access Platforms | Tracked Access Platform
don't know of availability in your area ...note, tracked and towables
don't know of availability in your area ...note, tracked and towables
The crane idea would work. It would need to raise the load (me) 30' and then North 60'. A fairly significant crane. If a crane company would be willing to accept the risk of dangling me. Or if I hired the guy that sealed the vent to operate the crane. He would not care. I would really prefer another approach.
I priced a cherry picker that would work if I could get it to the right side of the building at $200/1/2 day. If that is what I had to spend I would. My lot is an ugly place to bring big equipment on any side. When I moved in we had to move the household goods from the mover's trailer to a smaller truck (many loads). And yes this was a problem during construction. I had to rent a huge forklift to turn around a flatbed that thought he could deliver to the building. For another large item, the truck arrived, could not get in. Moved crane to a space down the road, brought in a smaller truck, moved the load, returned small truck and crane to site. After long haul truck left I realized from seeing the plumbing connections, that the item we were unloading was not mine. Longer story.
I priced a cherry picker that would work if I could get it to the right side of the building at $200/1/2 day. If that is what I had to spend I would. My lot is an ugly place to bring big equipment on any side. When I moved in we had to move the household goods from the mover's trailer to a smaller truck (many loads). And yes this was a problem during construction. I had to rent a huge forklift to turn around a flatbed that thought he could deliver to the building. For another large item, the truck arrived, could not get in. Moved crane to a space down the road, brought in a smaller truck, moved the load, returned small truck and crane to site. After long haul truck left I realized from seeing the plumbing connections, that the item we were unloading was not mine. Longer story.
smiley
Platinum Member
Stupid thought but if you can get it up there, maybe off scaffold, a good size rubber raft bottom side up, or several air mattresses not quite fully inflated, with plywood work platform attached. that would spread the load evenly over a very large area, with no worry about high and low contact points.
North Country
Gold Member
My thought about access from the inside included opening it up all the way to the slate - but it sounds like it's a non-starter.
I'm thinking the air mattress (partially inflated) just might be the way to go. Inflate 3 of them about 1/2way - just barely enough to hold shape, maybe even less. Duct tape them in a line. Get them up on the roof. You can then slide the 2nd ladder (I'm assuming the first leans on the gutter) up the mattresses - slowly adding load, and the vinyl provides a sliding surface. You'll need an anchor at the top (remember, the vinyl's slippery) but your weight will be distributed across ALL the slate, not just the individual high points.
It's the sliding effect that makes me think this will work better than foam attached to the ladder. If you attach the mattresses to the ladder first, it may slide - or it may get hung up.
Can you anchor off that top structure? The harness is a no-brainer. At the very least, toss a line over the ridge if you can't tie off to the upper structure. If you fall and the line comes taught, you'll break slate at the ridgeline - and live.
I'm thinking the air mattress (partially inflated) just might be the way to go. Inflate 3 of them about 1/2way - just barely enough to hold shape, maybe even less. Duct tape them in a line. Get them up on the roof. You can then slide the 2nd ladder (I'm assuming the first leans on the gutter) up the mattresses - slowly adding load, and the vinyl provides a sliding surface. You'll need an anchor at the top (remember, the vinyl's slippery) but your weight will be distributed across ALL the slate, not just the individual high points.
It's the sliding effect that makes me think this will work better than foam attached to the ladder. If you attach the mattresses to the ladder first, it may slide - or it may get hung up.
Can you anchor off that top structure? The harness is a no-brainer. At the very least, toss a line over the ridge if you can't tie off to the upper structure. If you fall and the line comes taught, you'll break slate at the ridgeline - and live.
North Country
Gold Member
Look at this one.
A22-17
Does that go on the 3pt hitch or is the tractor modified to become part of the unit?
JB4310
Super Member
Yes that is a premium lift. Very expensive, I've never seen them for rent, only one tree company around here has one. The one this guy has will fit thru a 30" gate! I've been thinking someday when I can't climb ladders anymore, I may invest in one so I can keep working.
Most of the rental companies have tow behinds for like you said a couple hundred a day, in 35 and 50 footers. i pulled mine around with a 3pt receiver hitch on my tractor, much more maneuverable than with a truck.
I respect your cautious approach, but I think you are being over protective. there's no way the roof can be that delicate as to worry about the pressure points a sheet of plywood would excert. If it were that susceptible, it would not be suitable for protection against the elements. But to try and help further I would say maybe that 1 inch thick Styrofoam board glued to the plywood, it comes in large sheets and should eliminate that pressure point fear.
Matter of fact, it sounds like it's the concentrated pressure you are concerned with, you may just use the foam board, no plywood??
Some pics of tow behind boom lifts, the green one is 35 foot and the orange is 50 foot. Very capable little machines.
JB.
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JB4310
Super Member
With the thought of rafts or air mattresses, not knocking those ideas, but How about a gym mat?JB
What I am going to try is to lay down a sheet of foam rubber and put a little ladder I built to get into the water tank on top of that. I want to use the loader bucket to keep the ladder from slopping, but it is very close to not high enough.
I tested the bucket today. What is a reasonable time for the bucket to drop by some amount (n inches) with the engine off and loader in max extension up?
I tested the bucket today. What is a reasonable time for the bucket to drop by some amount (n inches) with the engine off and loader in max extension up?
North Country
Gold Member
Depends on your cylinder seals. Best way to find out is to test - put 200 lbs of stuff in the bucket, raise it, measure it, and come back in an hour.
JB4310
Super Member
Mine drops noticeably in just a few minutes, maybe as much as half an inch in a minute or 2. I know because I use mine with a homemade man lift platform for trimming trees, cleaning gutters etc.
If I stay in one place to long we have to raise the bucket. I do this with 2 people. 1 in the seat and 1 on the platform.
This is with engine off, with engine running it is not as noticeable.
If it's not high enough drive the front tires up onto some wood, blocks, ramps etc. just make sure to ckok the wheels and set the parking brake.
To prevent bucket bleed down, if you're by yourself, you could prop the loader up with a 4x4 for support.
JB.
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jimgerken
Veteran Member
If there is any chance you may get injured while attempting this, don't ya think its time to call the original installer for advise or service? It is conceivable that the original installer warrants his work and will repair for no charge. In any case, he's crossed this bridge before and could do it safely with the proper equipment. Trust me, a broken leg is worth about $50,000 to your life. Imagine being layed up for six months and have a limp after that for the next forty years, vs paying some expert $500 for a simple repair. Hmmmmmm.
I appreciate both the concern and the innate rationality of what you say. Trust me; if I thought there were others with the equipment and skills I would do that. I have a max of 2 more days (including today) before the rain returns.
It was a plumber and/or one of the construction people. They have no expertise with this. I know the construction people were not good about thinking about water flow. It came up a lot. If they did, it would not leak now. It was done while the roof was being installed. They had no special equipment.
On the bright side, I am too old to have 40 years of limping left.
JB4310
Super Member
You could always use all those air matresses and padding recomended to create a landing zone
JB.I have wimped out. I have the foam and ladder on the roof. But I have no positive approach to keep things from sliding. It appears that they won't. If I had a fork lift attachment I could knock together a platform with something to support the lower end of my roof ladder. But the bucket just makes to too complicated.
I have never been all that thrilled about moving about on high things (greater than 4'). Although I have installed antennas on the top of 250' towers on the tops of mountains. A safety harness makes all the difference; mentally and physically.
I called a roofing company (a couple actually) and was not seriously surprised to find it hard to get someone on short notice. It starts raining for at least a week on Saturday. I have explained it is a funny roof construction and that they have in all probability never seen one; and will never see another one. And they will have to pay attention to what I explain to them. Anyway, I am to call one of them back at 0630 tomorrow to see if they can help. None had a cherry picker type device.
I have never been all that thrilled about moving about on high things (greater than 4'). Although I have installed antennas on the top of 250' towers on the tops of mountains. A safety harness makes all the difference; mentally and physically.
I called a roofing company (a couple actually) and was not seriously surprised to find it hard to get someone on short notice. It starts raining for at least a week on Saturday. I have explained it is a funny roof construction and that they have in all probability never seen one; and will never see another one. And they will have to pay attention to what I explain to them. Anyway, I am to call one of them back at 0630 tomorrow to see if they can help. None had a cherry picker type device.
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