Leased vs owned tanks - how to tell?

[dstig1]

The guy I picked up my welder from had a set of Oxy/Acet tanks/cart/torches that he was getting rid of too. I don't have room for them right now or I may have jumped at it. But it got me thinking about the leased/owned tank thing. I wouldn't want to accidentally buy a used set of tanks that was actually leased and find out the hard way when I went to get them filled.

I've read people say if there is a name stamped on the collar of a company then it is leased. Does anyone have a picture of what exactly this means? I looked at the oxy tank and saw Union Carbide in the collar just below where the protective cap screwed on, but I think I've always seen something like that on any compressed gas tank so I was thinking it was the manufacturer, not the owner. If someone could post a photo of what a leased and owned tank looks like, I'd really appreciate it so I know what to look for. I suppose I should stop into my LWS and ask them too, but their hours don't work well for me as I am at work then too...

Thanks!

 

[crash325]

Many lease tanks have "Lease" molded right into the top ring. More common is the color code at the top of the tank. That often changes by location.

Call your local welding supply co. and find out what it is where you live.

Been through that a couple of times. Really had a bad time getting some CA. tanks filled in AZ. Think I had to come up with a sales slip from a CA co.

 

[LD1]

I have never had to deal with it personally, but I have always been told you need to provided ownership papers to have a privatly owned tank filled.

So you may ask if he has the necessary papers.

 

[nspec]

I was offered a set of free tanks. Luckily I called the local gas suppliers first. Both AIRGAS and ABCO told me that those big tanks (not sure what the real size is called - maybe 5 foot tall) are ALL leased. It is not possible for a private individual to own them anymore. What I mean is, you can own one, but they will no longer fill it for you. It was about 3 years ago when I was told this.

I know there are smaller tanks you can own and refill, but apparently not those big ones.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have the "Large" oxygen tanks and I own them.

Mine will hold 1800 pounds

All of the company owned rental tanks are 2265 pounds here.

It does get confusing... this is why I always keep my ownership papers (copy) and my last fill receipt in the safety cap so I have it when it is time to refill.

It's been years since I paid to have my small Oxygen filled... I fill them or top them off from my big tank when I get those filled.

 

[Shield Arc]

I was offered a set of free tanks. Luckily I called the local gas suppliers first. Both AIRGAS and ABCO told me that those big tanks (not sure what the real size is called - maybe 5 foot tall) are ALL leased. It is not possible for a private individual to own them anymore. What I mean is, you can own one, but they will no longer fill it for you. It was about 3 years ago when I was told this.

I know there are smaller tanks you can own and refill, but apparently not those big ones.

After reading stories from all over, I've come to the conclusion every geographic area is different.

I own all my bottles, three 250's, one 122, and one 80. All these bottles have on them is a yellow sticker with a black "P". When I take my bottles in, I never get the same bottle back. My local welding supply does not fill them on site.

 

[nspec]

So if given the tank without ownership papers, you're out of luck? You mentioned oxygen tanks, but how about the acetylene tanks? Same thing?

 

[Shield Arc]

So if given the tank without ownership papers, you're out of luck? You mentioned oxygen tanks, but how about the acetylene tanks? Same thing?

Again every area is different, I've owned my tanks for 10-years. I have no idea where the receipts are.
But I've been dealing with the same welding supply for almost 30-years. One of the guys there has been there at least 20-years.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

The lease isn't a big deal where we deal. All it is is a reserve fee basically so that if something happens to the tank they have money to cover the cost. The fee is one time and is refundable if you return the tank and don't want a replacement. All I do is go in and drop off the empty tank and pay the cost of the fuel and take a full tank.

We had our own tanks but it was going to be a hassle to find someone willing to fill them. While we did find someone to fill them as we did legally own them. However, we were going to need to have the tank tested and the cost to test it was more then the fee to just ditch the tank and get the lease tank. The place we deal with is a small repair shop and they are great to deal with. I had never dealt with them till I needed to refil the tank and my friend told me about them. They have a great supply of welding and cutting supplies there so its like a toy store to me and their prices are the best around here.

 

[castiman]

If anyone had a chance of buying tanks from someone I think the best thing to do is first ask where he got them and to see his ownership papers.If he can't answer that or doesn't have papers then check on the bottles for a distributor name, if there is one then call them and give them the bottles serial numbers, they should be able to tell you if there leased or stolen, or if that guy owns them. I bought my bottles 32 years ago and still have the ownership papers, a few times over the years I've been asked to see them.The distributor that I bought them from now just checks the serial numbers on the bottles,I never get the same bottles back now cause they stop filling them there and just replace them with new bottles. I would not buy any bottles from anyone unless you know what your getting.

 

[Usta]

All I have is the 55-27" tanks. I typically go to the welding supply company but if they are closed, I go to TSC. Both places are tank exchange with no questions asked.

 

[tcreeley]

Years ago I bought tanks from where I was leasing. They went out of business and I went 10 years. Went to refill- couldn't until they found I once had an account at another welding supply they had bought out. They found me in the old records. I guess the moral is- keep active and refill often!

 

[dstig1]

All good info...but does anyone have any pics? Enquiring minds...

I might have time Mon to stop into the LWS, so I can see what they say. It's only curiosity at this point as I have no room for tanks right now...

 

[kenmac]

In my area. They will only lease tanks. It was like a 99 yr lease. Forget the cost. 99 yr lease:confused2:. I would say I bought them ,but paper work states lease

 

[lostcause]

if you look at the ring just below the valve you can see that the top picture has a smooth raised ring. the lower picture has a name stamped into it. this is what people are talking about when they describe the top of the tank. the smooth one is an owned tank and the named tank is leased.

i acquired the smooth tank as part of a private sale deal when i bought a welder. it is a 60cf tank, and i went to three welding supply stores in a 30 mile radius and every one had no issue setting me up with a customer owned bottle swap deal. each one pretty much said that tanks that size are generally customer owned, and they have no issues with filling them.

once you step up in sizes to the +/-125cf and then +/-250cf (i am not sure of the technical designations for these) you will usually be dealing with a leased tank. individuals can purchase these but unless you go back to the dealer you got it from, they will probably hassle you for a shred of proof that you own the tank.

from what i see for replies whenever lease/own topics come up, there is a big difference regionally on leasing. of the three dealers i know here one will do one year leases only, one will do 1 or 3, and the other will do 1 or 5. some will do longer leases, but only for volume businesses with 10+ bottles. also, some talk about sending their tanks away to have them filled, and to me this seems tedious because of the down time. none of the three dealers here do that. all are on an exchange bases even for customer owned tanks. you never get the same tank back, so discuss with them ahead of time how you prove that the tanks are yours if you take them to another dealer.

 

[bertman1]

All my are customer owned I have about 6 ox (LOG) 8(Large) aragon 2 Large acetylene they all have clean neck rings I travel Az.,Calf.,Nm., and Tex. I have had trouble in austin had to have my supplier cal them tell them they were mine and they chewed them out because they had clean neck rings and that is only time I have problens. watch murpey law strick and will have trouble now.:thumbsup:

 

[dstig1]

Lostcause - THANK YOU! That is exactly what I was looking for. The Oxy tank that I saw had "Union Carbide" stamped where yours says "Regulator Service" (or whatever it fully reads). This is what I suspected it would look like, but was never sure without someone showing me just what you did!

You need a reward for that. How about a dancing banana? It's the best I can do... Thanks "a bunch"

 

[sandman2234]

Just because it has or does not have a company name on the ring isn't a sure thing the bottle is a lease or a customer owned tank. The only time I am sure it always applies is when it has the name" Customer owned" stamped into the ring. (ie raised letters). The size plus the ring and the prefix of the serial number of the bottle are all factors.
I maybe incorrect, but I am pretty sure all pressures for the same gases are the same, so if your buying O2 in 2 different size bottles, and getting different pressures then somebody MIGHT be transfilling them and shorting you on xx number of cubic feet of gas,which is how bottled gas is typically sold. Different gases (high pressure) fill the same size tank at different pressures to reach the correct cubic footage for a bottle.
Clear as mud!!!

David from jax

 

[ultrarunner]

I maybe incorrect, but I am pretty sure all pressures for the same gases are the same, so if your buying O2 in 2 different size bottles, and getting different pressures then somebody MIGHT be transfilling them and shorting you on xx number of cubic feet of gas,which is how bottled gas is typically sold. Different gases (high pressure) fill the same size tank at different pressures to reach the correct cubic footage for a bottle.
Clear as mud!!!

David from jax

The fill pressure will be stamped right on the neck of the bottle.

My 200 cubic foot oxygen is 1800#

I have others in the shop that are 2015#

For work, I was able to negotiate no charge rentals as long as I order an average of 40 cylinders per month... which has not been a problem.

The local Airco Supplier was very generous at one time... I had brought in some Airco Cylinders that were left behind in an old warehouse... the Supplier offered me 5 year free rental just for bringing them in... I declined because I already have my customer owned cylinders.

http://www.airgas.com/content/details.aspx?id=7000000000234

http://www.airgas.com/content/details.aspx?id=7000000000243

 

[sandman2234]

One of the other welding supply companies had an employee selling gas to small shops and pocketing the cash. He was found and fired. I came across one of those shops that had closed, that had about 200 of those empty bottles. Called the owner of the supply store to see if a finders fee could be negotiated and he wouldn't even give me one pair of welding gloves for my trouble. Owner of the building asked me what to do with them, so I handed him a business card of a scrap guy that would give him a few pennies of what the stuff brought at the scrapyard once he torched the tops off and separated the valves. The welding supply store owner asked me about them six months later and I told him they were gone. He was upset, because he thought he could locate them by doing driveby's of all the shops his crooked employee had contact with. I guess he found out his employee had more customers than he was writing tickets on.
Shame, but it put food on somebodies table, to clear out that shop. Just not mine...
David from jax