liens

[kthompson]

It is a shame this thread became such a personal attack rather than serve the purpose it could have. This is a serious issue that anyone who buys a used machine or implement could be a victim of yet the valid potential of it has been harmed by attacks that have helped no one and has upset some for no valid reason. Accusing each other as some has should be embarrassing. This thread has a very very valid concern here that could affect any of us and we have allow the real issue to be lost. Can we not look at his as the serious issue it is and how to avoid it, the buying of property that is even stolen but the ownership did not rest with the seller?

I have some thoughts would like to ask or share in mature conversation and not meant in any manner to harm any party including the seller, the OP, JD or an insurance company.
1) I still find it hard to think it took JD financial four years to notify the OP there was outstanding loan on the tractor when he had registered with JD for warranty reasons.
2) Based upon the amount that was owed it is hard to believe the "owner" had made any payment in those four years.
3) What action had JD financial taken in those years? I doubt JD had loan on it without insurance to protect them (based upon two purchased of JD and financed with JD financial). I find it hard that JD financial had not come to the conclusion the tractor was stolen or such and submitted a claim for the machine with the insurance company. This would not have happened till they had exhausted the recover or payment of lien by all expected efforts. Might have included a legal case on the person who sold the OP the tractor or some effort there and have no idea what those efforts would be.
4) If the insurance company had paid for the tractor then it is them who has claim I "THINK" and not JD financial.
5) We had a neighbor who moved owing some lenders, one being Ford Motor per the calls we began to get. That went on for say two years and quit. Then began again and think have quit again. It was our impression each time the calling began the loan(s) had been sold to another collection company so they began again. So I do think it is highly likely this is collection agency and not JD financial but no idea that changes anything.
6) This was sort of asked and if answered missed it, had the OP sold the tractor and was not able to provide name of person he sold to or proven he had sold it what liability does he have?
7) How can a person be totally sure even buying new from a dealership they have the legal authority to sell the equipment with clear title to the buyer? (This was discussed some.) Is the safe way to have it financed by say JD or Case or Kubota at 100% of price and make sure all payments are made out to them and mailed directly to them? But if the equipment is not really owned by the seller would financing it with the company's own lender give you any protection?
8) Is the only way to be 100% safe to lease the equipment? Or is there a risk in leasing equipment the person does not have ownership of?
9) This is to the OP, if you have insurance on the tractor have you asked if there is any coverage if it was stolen to protect you? ( NOT STOLEN FROM YOU BUT WAS NOT CLEAR TITLE WHEN SOLD TO YOU)
10) Maybe buying with a credit card would provide protection here, would it? But if the seller is gone does the protection against fraud still work on the card and what is time limit on a fraudulent purchase?

If I did not use the correct word in a question that was a mistake, I am not playing games but really think we each need to realize how easy it could happened to any of us. If I offended anyone that was not my goal.

 

[My Gym]

I have read the now 17 pages of this discussion. I was most upset by the too bad, so sad, it sucks to be you, good luck getting the police involved attitude that presented by many of the posters. In many ways we have become a nation of victims. Accepting fraud, scams, and unethical behavior, then being told there is nothing you can do about it. I refuse to accept that. I was not raised to be a victim. I have not suggested anything unethical, nothing illegal. Make the people follow the law and make the law do their job. The laws have been passed to try and protect all parties, know your rights. Readers of this thread have been best served by pages 15, 16, 17. These pages actually discuss how to protect yourself and some of the pitfalls.

 

[two_bit_score]

two_bit_score

"Now you are trying to parse words to get out of the box you created."

I have created no box I am not trying to parse words. It is not a court of law and we are not lawyers. Do not try to insult me. I do not have a dog in the fight. It is a discussion on line with total strangers. Words or terms make a huge difference. A lease is different than a bill of sale. A UCC filing has different rules in different states. Not all liens are valid, but they can have an effect on a sale. You can sell property with a lien in some cases if the buyer assumes the debt. Car dealers do it all the time. It is simply a discussion.



"It's just the normal first step to recovery of their security interest; putting the possessor on notice that they have a security interest in the property and requesting a resolution."

In my opinion, an normal first step is a certified letter putting the possessor on notice that they have a security interest in the property and requesting a resolution. At this point if the possessor hides, or sells, the property, he is potentially committing a crime.

The very last sentence in your post is the only one that makes any sense. So I'll leave it at that.

TBS

 

[two_bit_score]

To add to this, there's a good chance the person the OP has been dealing with is not the actual lien-holder but a collection agency



Since it's been four years, there's a good chance that JD Credit wrote the loan off as uncollectable as soon as they learned the tractor had been sold. (Are you suggesting that maybe he is just having a bad dream and this will all just go away.)

****, for all the OP knows the whole thing is a scam, there never was a lien in the first place.
(Maybe but he said he found a UCC1 filed on the tractor.)

Good try.
.

 

[TimberHole]

Back to the UCC-1 filing.........Every tractor has a serial number. Can the UCC-1 database be searched by serial number? As a buyer I couldn't care less who they loaned the money to, I care whether the machine has a lien on it.......that's it, plain and simple. Is that possible?

 

[My Gym]

"Can the UCC-1 database be searched by serial number? "

No
There are 50 data bases. One for each state,and must be searched by business or person. Equipment does not have to be listed by serial number. example: Banks file UUC-1 blanket for all business assets. I had that type of UCC filing for my business line of credit for over 20 years. I could buy and sell freely, but if I defaulted on the line of credit. The bank would review my transactions to make sure I did not try to defraud the bank. That is why I stressed the importance of a "bill of sale" and Proof of payment. If it was determined to be a fair and reasonable business transaction, there was no lein. It would be considered normal conduct of business.

Life if full of risk. If you become so fearful of risk, you will have a hard time getting out of bed each day. But remember a lot of people die in bed.

Another thing to watch out for.
If an item is not list on the bill of sale and you assume the seller is giving the item to you to sweeten the sale. Do not assume that you own it. It may be leased. The seller did not sell it, You did not buy it, and the lessor has the right to repossess his property and no crime has been committed.

 

[Teachu2]

[/QUOTE]
Another thing to watch out for.
If an item is not list on the bill of sale and you assume the seller is giving the item to you to sweeten the sale. Do not assume that you own it. It may be leased. The seller did not sell it, You did not buy it, and the lessor has the right to repossess his property and no crime has been committed.[/QUOTE]

I believe selling or giving away property that one does not own is a crime. I believe the legal term is conversion.

 

[TheMan419]

Life if full of risk. If you become so fearful of risk, you will have a hard time getting out of bed each day. But remember a lot of people die in bed.

Where is the like button?

 

[TheMan419]

Life if full of risk. If you become so fearful of risk, you will have a hard time getting out of bed each day. But remember a lot of people die in bed.

Where is the like button?

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

You guessed wrong, .

Quit acting like one, then.