Lighting & workbench?

Tdog · Nov 16, 2004

My new workshop/garage is almost finished. I will then need to build a workbench, shelving and the like. I will also have to install lighting.
Does anyone have suggestions? I've built a workbench before from 3/4" plywood, cut to a 3 x 8' sheet, about 30 inches from the floor.
What about lighting? The building is 30 x 40', concrete floor, with truss supports that are about 8 - 9' about the floor.
I plan to have a 30 amp line run underground to the shop.

Any suggestions will be welcome.

Boxman · Nov 16, 2004

Your workbench sounds about right. I always double up my 3/4" ply for the top and use a 1/4" piece of tempered hardboard as a floating final top so I can replace it easily..just hold it on with a couple of screws in the corners.

As for the lighting...I just got done installing 15 4' T8 fluorescent fixtures in my 24'x30' garage. I really like the T8 lights because of the electronic ballast, they're quiet, start fast and work in cold weather.

sneaky_pete · Nov 16, 2004

My trusses are higher than yours, but I have multiple banks of double 8-foot fluorescent tubes attached to the bottom of the trusses. This gives good overall light to the whole shop, but I have 36" tubes lower and right over the workbench area, and drop-down cord reel type trouble lights in the tractor/car/motorcycle work bay. This setup works well for me.

Pete

TOMDUALLY · Nov 16, 2004

Just a suggestion, on your workbenches I would make the tops 36" inches high(same as kitchen counters) instead of 30'' (which would be equal to the bathroom sink) sure ends up being easier on the back while working on a project.
As for the electric I would go to at least 50 amp 220 volt service so that you will be able to power that welder that your going to have to buy to finish all thse projects that you'll be doing in your new living room. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

v8dave · Nov 16, 2004

( . . .As for the lighting...I just got done installing 15 4' T8 fluorescent fixtures in my 24'x30' garage. I really like the T8 lights because of the electronic ballast, they're quiet, start fast and work in cold weather.)

Right on. I just loaded up my shop with similar lighting. No flicker when they're cold and instant on. A little more than the cheapest ones available, But, what a difference.

I might suggest putting the over head lights on several switches. Make one string of lights "aisle/walk way" lighting. That way you can get across the shop without killing yourself and not have to have all the lights on.

Then put the rest of the lights on a three way (operates from two places) circuit. When you get to the work bench, and finish the project or collect tools, you can turn on the rest of the shop lights without having to walk back to the front door.

I've put both the aisle and remaining lighting both on 3-ways. That way I can kill all the shop lighting when I am at the workbench area. The workbench area has its own light switch. No sense in having 1,000+ watts of shop lights on when you are working in the workbench area.

Put a plug on each side of the roll up door so you can run extension cords outside to work on machinery. Put your wall plugs ot least 3' above the floor, if you put 'em at 4' you can put your bench anywhere without covering the plugs. You don't have to bend over as far to plug in tools--this isn't the house and you don't need to hide the cords. Place a plug under each window. That way the plugs will still be accessable when you've stacked things against the wall--when you stack things against the wall you don't cover the windows.

Make sure to have drop cords from the ceiling as Pete suggests. Just run them off a different circuit than the overhead lights. Yeah it's more work, but, that way when you pop a circuit breaker you'll still have lights to see by.

v8dave · Nov 16, 2004

( . . . I plan to have a 30 amp line run underground to the shop. Any suggestions will be welcome. )

Do youself a favor and run at least a 50 amp, 220 volt, circuit to a separate panel. Don't skimp on the wire size, a #6 size wire cable will work up to 100'. A 50 amp double breaker (for 220) is easy to retrofit to the house breaker panel (or wherever you are getting the power from). That way you'll be able to run heavy power equipment and also have some capacity for a welder too. If you can do it, even more capacity would be better.

mrcaptainbob · Nov 16, 2004

I agree with having a higher amp load available and going 220. Too much is never enough! Also, the two circuits for lighting is a good idea. Run each one off of each leg of the box. Also, I'd sugest every other recepticle to be different than the others. Run them on both sides of the panel box, too. That'll help balance out the load, plus, should a main pop, everything on the other side is still available. It takes a bit more wire, but well worth the minor added cost.

Egon · Nov 17, 2004

Only one comment on the lighting. Just seems that there is never enough for tired old eyes.

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dummy · Nov 17, 2004

As for the electric I would go to at least 50 amp 220 volt service so that you will be able to power that welder that your going to have to buy to finish all thse projects that you'll be doing in your new living room.
 My plasma cutter uses a 50 amp 220 circuit. Wouldn't leave much juice for lights.

Henro · Nov 17, 2004

The building is 30 x 40', concrete floor 

Like the others have said, 30 amps is not enough. You just don't know what your future needs willl be.

To top it off, electrical panels and wire are pretty cheap. Maybe more if you are not doing it yourself, but even then labor cost is probably the biggest part of the cost of the job.

The incremental cost of upping the service capacity is not that much and you will likely thank yourself later if you do go larger.

I ran 100 amps 220 volt out to my shed. And it is only 24 x 26' in size.

Now if your building is a long distance from the power source, that could be an issue as you need to consider voltage drop and wire size needs to be increased to compensate. I only had to go about 120 feet so that was not much of an issue...

If you can afford to go larger than 30 amps, be sure to do it. Too expensive to do over later...

bczoom · Nov 17, 2004

A couple thoughts.

A 100 amp service is a beautiful thing. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Never know what you'll want/need to connect in the future. (E.g. I keep my generator at the building and back feed to the house. Too much for a 30 amp service)

When you run your underground, think of what else you might want to pull.
- Cable so you can watch the game or race on Sunday while puttering.
- 2 strands of CAT-5. One set for phone line(s), the other so you can take your old PC out there to stay connected to TBN as you work on a project.
- Water line?
- A spare 12/3 so you can turn on/off selected circuits from the house (block heater, garage heater, battery charger...)

For lighting inside, consider a motion detector that points towards the door. When you drive in when it's dark, the light will come on allowing safe parking provide light until you can get over to the wall switch.

Are you going to have outdoor lighting?

Gary_in_Indiana · Nov 17, 2004

Another voice in the chorus here. I have 200 amp service in my barn and zero regrets. Right now the biggest draws I have are my air compressor and welder but who knows what I might buy later.

I also agree on the work bench idea. I'd go taller. Even kitchen counter height (36") is too low for most men (and many women) today. Since you're building it, why not experiment a little with different heights before you make your bench? Set a scrap piece of ply in or on your loader bucket and raise and lower it until you find a height that feels really comfortable then measure to the floor and you have what YOU need. There's nothing that says you have to be at a height evenly divisible by six inches. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

GregJ · Nov 17, 2004

I just built a new workbench for my shop. I used a full 4x8 sheet of 3/4 AC covered with tempered fiberboard. It is 36 inches high, on casters. The top is supported by 2x6's on 16 inch centers. I wired it with 6 outlets and a heavy duty extension cord. So, when I am ready to do some wood work, I pull my tractors out, roll the bench out, roll my table saw out to one end of the bench and I have everything ready to go. The bench is the same height as my table saw, so it works as an outfeed table. I have storage for a lot of my tools under the workbench, like my planer and compound miter saw. I also bought a wire rack storage cart at Costco, (about $75) to store all my other tools. This is really nice because I can roll them all to where I am working as well. I'll try to take some pictures later to show the bench and rolling rack. My shop has never been more convenient to use.

Hope this helps,
Greg

joek · Nov 17, 2004

Here's a link with a few ideas for workbenches you might be able to incorporate.

http://www.freeww.com/workbenches.html

cadblaster · Nov 17, 2004

Here's a tip about vise placement on your workbench. I know the subject didn't come up, but I thought it was worith mentioning.
Mount the vise at one corner or the other, but typically on the right if you are right handed. Position the vise so it is centered in the corner of the bench. This makes it useable from both the front of the bench, or pivoted to be used off the end as well.
If you have a vise that doesn't pivot, drill holes for both locations. With careful layout, at least the corner hole can be used for both positions.

Tdog · Nov 17, 2004

Thanks for your suggestions, Boxman, sneaky pete, Tomdually, v8dave, mrcaptainbob, Egon, dummy, Henro, bczoom, Gary in I, Greg], joek, cadblaster. Wow, lots of good ideas. I will definitely use a lot of them. I like the idea of several switches - - & I’ll likely use the light fixtures recommended.
Not sure I’ll be up to the additional electrical power I KNOW I have a 30 amp circuit available. I’ll have to check to see if I can handle anything else. I am not a welder - - not that I wouldn't like to be sometimes. I don’t want to have the power company out - - I’m afraid they will ask about building permits & the like. I am not an electrician, but I think I can wire the shop OK. I don’t know how to assess what’s available unused from my current electrical panel.

Thanks to all.

GregJ · Nov 17, 2004

Tdog,
I promised I'd show some pictures. Here is a picture of my workbench on casters. It really works well for me because it stores my tools and I can work on both sides, which also gives easy access to my wall storage. I don't have to lean over a bench to get to things hanging on the wall. Plus outlets all around eliminates the need for multiple extension cords. Most of it was constructed with scrap and spare lumber I had laying around. Cadblaster made some good suggestions about vise placement. On my workbench, I have drilled holes and installed tee nuts from underneath for my planer, compound miter saw, bench grinder, wet grinder, drill press and vise. This way I can easily remove them and have to whole bench top open for big projects. Plus, like cadblaster's suggestion, then I can have multiple locations for different tools.

Greg

GregJ · Nov 17, 2004

Here's a picture of that rolling rack that I got at Costco. It's really heavy duty, rolls easily and holds a ton of stuff.

Hope this stuff helps,
Greg

v8dave · Nov 17, 2004

( Thanks for your suggestions. . .
Not sure I’ll be up to the additional electrical power I KNOW I have a 30 amp circuit available. I’ll have to check to see if I can handle anything else. I am not a welder - - not that I wouldn't like to be sometimes. . .
I don’t know how to assess what’s available unused from my current electrical panel. )

You'll need and get a welder, even if it's only operated by a friend at your place.

Don't even look inside the supply panel with the cover removed without turning off the main power!

Glan to see you are concerned about working around electricity. Get somebody to help rewire the supply panel. Ask around your friends and neighbors, ask if any of them know how to help you "rewire" the panel. If you can't get local help, then get an electrician for a day. They won't care about your permit status. The electrician can also help you get the feed to the shop into the supply panel. The several hundred bucks it will cost you will be money very well spent.

It appears you have a "spare" 30 amp breaker in your panel. at a minumum you can replace this one breaker with a 50 amp breaker.

However, there is a better way. Go and take a look at the panel, check to see if there is either an unused panel spot or if you have a "standard" size breaker or two in the panel. Take note of the panel manufacturer. Go to Home Depot or Lowes and take a look at the breakers that will fit your panel. You'll notice that you can get a "quad" breaker (in lots of combinations of amperage) that will fit in the space of two standard breakers.

Look at the attached picture. You can see in the upper right corner a quad breaker. The center two breakers are ganged for 220 to feed the machine shop breaker panel. The outer two breakers, of the quad, feed the main shop plugs. Four circuits in the space of two standard breakers. A set like this can keep your supply panel in working order. In the lower right corner is an unused panel slot. The only standard sized breakers in this picture are the two GFCI breakers and the mains. It's hard to reset a tripped ceiling GFCI, so I put it in the panel. The other GFCI is a dedicated circuit for an old gas pump outside. It's used to light the walkway between the house and shop. You can also see how a double breaker (standard size) is used as a 100 amp 220 main breaker feed (upper left).

No, I don't have two car lifts in the shop. I only have the ceiling wired for future lift(s). I'll eventually get one for working on cars and when I fill the place up with too many cars, I'll get a second lift for storage. If I can afford toy cars, I can afford a lift to store 'em on--but eventually I really will retire and all this over kill will have to slow down.

Tdog · Nov 18, 2004

Thanks for the pictures, v8D & Greg]. I'm considering your workbench on casters idea - - do you have a problem with it being steady enough for heavy pounding/piddling?

As to the rolling shelving - - we don't have a Cosco, but I've seen something similar at Sam's for about $75-$80. I'll probably spring for that too.

As for lighting, what's the approximate price for a double 4' T8 fixture? Any particular brand better than another. I'll see what I can find.

Good suggestions, all. Don't know how soon I'll be able to 'finish' the inside. Just getting it built ha$ been a $truggle! One more payment to make, once the builder finishes.