lightning rods any believers ?

[framer]

Thanks for the replies. I am putting them back. Thought with metal roof it be ok
after all the buildings going up with no protection. Most agree one bolt can pass right through 29 gauge metal and start fires.

 

[doall]

If I already had them there, I know I would put them back up. For the classy look and function too.

 

[/pine]

imho...the metal roof makes no difference at all ...unless it (the metal) is "somehow" grounded to the earth...

what makes the most difference is where the building is located...if it's on the top of a hill and is the highest thing in the area..(i.e., on a hill in the middle of a field)...it makes sense to protect (ground) it from strikes...

otherwise, so called "grounding rods" only attract strikes...if there are tall trees in close proximity lightning is more apt to strike the most "grounded" object...

In older structures where cast iron was the prominent material used for plumbing and vent stacks protruded through the roofs...they essentially became "lightning rods"...logic is the key to determining whether they (lightning rods) are beneficial or not...IMO

 

[doall]

imho...the metal roof makes no difference at all ...unless it (the metal) is "somehow" grounded to the earth...

what makes the most difference is where the building is located...if it's on the top of a hill and is the highest thing in the area..(i.e., on a hill in the middle of a field)...it makes sense to protect (ground) it from strikes...

otherwise, so called "grounding rods" only attract strikes...if there are tall trees in close proximity lightning is more apt to strike the most "grounded" object...

In older structures where cast iron was the prominent material used for plumbing and vent stacks protruded through the roofs...they essentially became "lightning rods"...logic is the key to determining whether they (lightning rods) are beneficial or not...IMO

don't be sitting on the toilet in a lightning storm

 

[AHNC]

When I was a kid our neighbor, who knew it all, had improperly installed not only the lightening rods but the panel ground on his new barn. We had just gotten the hay in. I was looking out the window at home watching this lightening storm when I saw the barn get hit. My Dad and I got there and got the horses out, but it was a pretty depressing sight watching that barn go, and boy did it go fast. Do it once, so it right.:thumbsup:

 

[LD1]

When I was a kid our neighbor, who knew it all, had improperly installed not only the lightening rods but the panel ground on his new barn. We had just gotten the hay in. I was looking out the window at home watching this lightening storm when I saw the barn get hit. My Dad and I got there and got the horses out, but it was a pretty depressing sight watching that barn go, and boy did it go fast. Do it once, so it right.:thumbsup:

What was done incorrectly about it??

Did he put the rods on and no cable to ground??

It's kinda simple system that is hard to screw up

 

[Transit]

It is imposable to say what went wrong from [When I was a kid....]. Had the rods and panel ground all gone wrong? Could the neighbor have used the panel ground for the rod ground? Who can say?
It may be simple for you LD1, but I have seen pros screw up a string.

Case in point, we had a 230 volt, 30 kVA UPS go up in smoke, it is about the size of mid size refrigerator.
Looking for the cause, I noticed water stains on and in the cabinet, ceiling and other overhead things. The first thing that came to mind, rain water got in. But wait, this is on the ground floor two levels below the station platform, no way.
Walking up to the platform looking for signs of water there is a landing with a Janitors closet. And what is in that closet? A sink, hose bib, water meter and the pipes connecting it all, directly to the inch over the UPS below. A pipe had burst and was repaired before anyone noticed that the UPS was blown. The new Mt Arlington station Park & Ride was designed by an Architectural firm and singed off by our PE's [Professional Engineers]. Enough said.

 

[Dargo]

...otherwise, so called "grounding rods" only attract strikes...if there are tall trees in close proximity lightning is more apt to strike the most "grounded" object...

I want to preface my comments by stating that I have zero education in working with lightning rods, but I did have a shovel I was holding get hit once and it burnt my belt buckle and blew the steel toe off my right shoe. I lived, as you may have guessed.

Anyway, my wife's family always had lightning rods on their single story home and it got hit 3 or 4 times, doing a good bit of damage each time. My FIL credits the lightning rods for the home not burning to the ground. My dad's house and my house are 2 story homes pretty well sitting alone on hill tops and neither have ever been hit by lightning nor has either of my barns and both are over 30' tall.

There is no scientific evidence whatsoever for me to say it's better to not have them as opposed to having a home with spikes all over it. However, based on this personal bit of history, I'm not going to put any on my homes or barns.

 

[varmint]

As a guy who's worked in architecture and the building trades since 1963 or so, I have heard arguments pro and con for lightning rods, as you can imagine. I am pretty sure that I would have them installed, by a professional, if I had a building that seemed to be a prime target. Our bungalow, built in 1923, and at that time a high object, has had lightning rods on it from the get go. Trees now surround, and dwarf, the house, but I had the rods reinstalled when we reroofed it. I noticed that the grounding cables are heavy woven copper, and though they wouldn't handle thousands of amps, they would give it a start. Maybe the fact there are a number of them helps?? My two other metal roofed buildings are not protected, so you could say I am running an experiment.

 

[LD1]

IMO what you need to do is install a 1000' tall tower on top of the house. This will for sure get struck by lightning the next storm. Once you collect the insurance money and rebuild, you wont have to worry about it because we all know that lightning wont strike the same place twice

 

[Transit]

Yes, lightning is very fickled. People have been killed while talking on the phone, sleeping in a metal frame bed or in their kitchen changing a light bulb in the ceiling. Check out Ball Lightning and St. Elmo's fire for some real cool stories.

 

[riptides]

I want to preface my comments by stating that I have zero education in working with lightning rods, but I did have a shovel I was holding get hit once and it burnt my belt buckle and blew the steel toe off my right shoe. I lived, as you may have guessed.

....

Funniest post on TBN, I don't believe you lived.

Sounds like your proof positive for lightning rods.

 

[John47]

I am not an expert and Have never seen any evidince either way but I have my doubts that they will work.

The only ones you see around here anymore are on OLD barns and structures. Dads place (early 1900's farm house) has them on a few of the structures. They are aluminum with and aluminum cable. I have my doubts how good this would be in a lightning strike. I would think that it would just vaporize the cable in an instant.

Also, If he is putting on a metal roof, what good are the rods sticking up in the air? The whole roof is metal and will be electrified.

Again, this is just my opinion and observations so take it with a grain of salt because I may have no clue at all. But whatever you do, follow the code in the area. Regardless of what you "want" to do, They are always right

Next time you pass your local electricity switching yard, take a good look!! You will see many lightning rods!
They WORK by diverting a strike away from what's protected.
Lightning protection is an engineering science based on many years of experience gained in the "field".
There are expert companies that specialize in installing lightning protection to buildings, towers, and electricity supply and generating companies.
Aluminum wiring should never be used in lightning protection, heavy gauge copper should be the choice every time.

 

[framer]

Read your reply John. I have aluminum wire and rods should it be reused?
thanks. framer

 

[LD1]

As with many other thins on the market, it will have its believers and non believers. Just because something has been on the market and tested and designed by highly paid engineers, doesn't mean it will work.

I think there have already been many posts on here about people who have had them and they worked, and people who have them and they didn't work.

There is also many who have had them and their hose still burned down, and some have had them and suffered minimal damage.

Every lightning bolt is different. Every circumstance is different. How come one person can be struck by lightning and survive with minimal injury and the next person gets killed instantly???

In the rural sticks where I live, there are a lot of old farm houses and structures. Some protected and some not. I have seen many aluminum cables for the straps. I have also seen steel cables tied in with a metal roof and connected to a grounding rod. Either way, even if copper were used, I think it would have to be a 4 or 5 inch cable to handle it. Maybe biggger. And I have never seen anything close.

Bottom line, I personally have never seen any proof that they work. Sure I have seen many small scale expirements. But for all the ones out there that prove they work, there is just as many that prove they dont. So I will continue to be a non believer until someone can show me real hard proof on a full scale. And then be able to prove whether the damage with the rods is less than what would have happened without the rods.

I think someone should submit this to mythbusters:laughing:

 

[SPYDERLK]

I want to preface my comments by stating that I have zero education in working with lightning rods, but I did have a shovel I was holding get hit once and it burnt my belt buckle and blew the steel toe off my right shoe. I lived, as you may have guessed.

Funniest post on TBN, I don't believe you lived.

Sounds like your proof positive for lightning rods.

Yeah, he had me wondering a bit. This could explain it.
larry

 

[MikeD74T]

LD1, I won't try to change your mind but if you ever do want to be convinced come in from the "sticks" & go to the Ben Franklin Museum in Philadelphia. There are demonstrations re: how both lightning & lightning rods work. For example there's an explanation about how Ben realized he was about to be struck by lightning during his kite experiment & rapidly ended the experiment.

As for simply grounding the roof, there's a specific electrical code for lightning rod systems seperate from grounding codes. Contact your insurance company for statistics on improperly installed lightning rods. They'll convince you via your wallet, keeping in mind that without someone's occasional loss they'd be out of business.

Right outside my office wall is a nuclear reactor containment structure with 4 flagpole sized lightning rods. I've stood within 200' of the grounding cables, about 5/8" diameter stranded copper, & observed direct strikes. Never seen anything vaporized. As others have said our high voltage termination yard and transmission lines are similarly protected & it works despite your skepticism. MikeD74T

 

[SPYDERLK]

In the rural sticks where I live, there are a lot of old farm houses and structures. Some protected and some not. I have seen many aluminum cables for the straps. I have also seen steel cables tied in with a metal roof and connected to a grounding rod. [[Either way, even if copper were used, I think it would have to be a 4 or 5 inch cable to handle it.]] Maybe biggger. And I have never seen anything close.

Bottom line, I personally have never seen any proof that they work. Sure I have seen many small scale expirements. But for all the ones out there that prove they work, there is just as many that prove they dont. So I will continue to be a non believer until someone can show me real hard proof on a full scale. And then be able to prove whether the damage with the rods is less than what would have happened without the rods.

I think someone should submit this to mythbusters:laughing:

[] Cu fer sher, altho not so big as that. Good conductor and hi mass. This gives it a lot of thermal "inertia" and lightening, atho a huge current, is very short duration and would hardly warm a several inch cable. Turns out that the inherent almost instant action of electrostatic events favors conduction by a flat profile conductor to lessen inductance vs a round one. Id go for about a 2" wide ground strap similar to the [smaller] ones often used in vehicles to handle the start current. Id be concerned that it not be touching combustibles tho because it may warm to several hundred degrees in a strike. --- Another reason for Cu: high melt point vs Al. ... ~1900 vs 1100F
larry

 

[CTW]

Read a story a while back out of Florida that involved lightning striking a Queen Palm tree in the front yard in which the current went down the trunk, into the landscape wiring and right into the house. From what I recall, the homeowner lost most of his expensive electronics that were not surge protected. I tried to find an article link but couldn't locate one, probably too long ago. I thought most people these days had everything of sensitive and expensive in nature surge protected.

 

[/pine]

...homeowner lost most of his expensive electronics that were not surge protected...

FWIW...

"surge protectors" are not lightning protectors...check the warranties

if you use a back-up battery system (UPS) or uninterruptible power supply...everytime it "chirps" or kicks on and off you are seeing a typical "surge"...normal house current can surge many times a day even when there are no electrical storms etc...these surges are what "surge protectors" are meant to neutralize...and can cause damage to sensitive electronic equipment...