Lightning strike, well pump box failed

[Valveman]

Personally, I would ditch the cycle stop, but that has been thrashed extensively elsewhere, and I don't want to get into it here.

If you don't have the space, I'd go with the 26 gallon tank.

All the best,

Peter

But then you did get into it here. Ditching the Cycle Stop Valve would be removing the most important part of the pump system. ANYWHERE the CSV has been "thrashed extensively" they fail to give any empirical evidence of the problem. They say back pressure is bad for a pump, but they never show an example of a problem caused. They say a CSV will destroy pumps, yet after 33 years there has never shown a single example of a failed pump. They say a CSV waste energy, but they can't make that happen. I have been waiting 33 years for the other shoe to drop, for someone to actually find a fault with the CSV system. It has never happened, and I don't think it ever will. After all this time I think I can safely say the Cycle Stop Valve is the most elegant solution for pump system problems that exist to date. So please, show me a failed pump, a high electric bill, or some kind of evidence before you continue to "thrash" the Cycle Stop Valve unjustifiably. But I have found that controversy stirs interest, as all the "thrashing" gets intelligent people to call and ask questions.

A 26 gallon size pressure tank only holds about 6 gallons of water. Even a couple of the largest tanks they make will not stop the cycling like a Cycle Stop Valve does. When there is a lot of usage or leaks of less than 2 GPM we recommend a larger tank with the CSV. But a 20 gallon tank with the CSV will handle leaks and low flow rates and any larger tank is not needed.

 

[Valveman]

I agree with Steve that water flow has never worn out poly pipe. And also agree rocks are not your friend. Most pipe problems I see are caused by water hammer from the pump starting and stopping. Using a Cycle Stop Valve will greatly limit the pump cycling and also give a mechanical soft stop, which decreases stress on the pipe system as much as it does the pressure tank and everything else.

Also, someone made a comment about higher pressure being hard on the pump and it is not. Turning the pressure up decreases the flow rate and lowers the amp draw, making the pump/motor run cooler. If you want higher pressure in the house, turn it up. It isn't going to hurt the pump.

 

[steve tym]

Higher pressure will make the pump draw lower amps, seems contrary, but it's true.
If you raise the pressure on the switch, the air charge in the tank should also be increased.
Mr. Valveman, what happens if you take a 50 psi CSV and set the pressure to 70 psi? If I think it thru, that should be ok. But you shouldn't run a 60 psi CSV at 50 psi?

 

[Carl_NH]

Agree with you Steve, and how do you adjust the CSV setting when the CSV is inside the well casing - pull the pump?

 

[steve tym]

I don't think they are field adjustable. If I was going to use them, I think it would be in the well, not in the house. I worry about the excessive back pressure they put on the trench line.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I don't think the CSV is bad. And replacing the Cyclestop valve would require pulling my pump, since it's hanging in line. I'm putting in the extra tank and I'll see if that helps. I'm ordering my tank now. I need a T to connect it, but obviously I don't need a second T kit with pressuer switche, etc. Should I just put in a stainless or brass T with drain vavle and a couple cut offf valves on each side , in case I need them later? Also , my current pressure valve is rated at 80 psi. should I replace that with 100 psi valve or just turn the sustem back down to about 60 psi once I get the other tank installed?
Can I sisimpy plumb the new tank inline after the the T kit and pressure switch that I already have, or does it need to go in front of the pressure switch?

 

[Valveman]

Higher pressure will make the pump draw lower amps, seems contrary, but it's true.

If everyone understood this natural characteristic of a centrifugal pump, my job would be so much easier. But I would also have a bazillion competitors, because everyone would understand the CSV is better than a VFD. It is a double edged sword for me. In one way it makes CSV's hard to sell because it takes so much explanation. However, because the Simple CSV has such a complicated explanation, I don't have much competition.

Mr. Valveman, what happens if you take a 50 psi CSV and set the pressure to 70 psi? If I think it thru, that should be ok. But you shouldn't run a 60 psi CSV at 50 psi?

Anytime the system pressure is below the setting of the CSV, the CSV is just wide open like a piece of pipe. If you open enough faucets to bring the system pressure down to 50 PSI when using a 60 PSI CSV setting, you are at 50 PSI because that is all the pump can do at that flow rate. Doesn't hurt the CSV. The CSV only functions when the flow rate being used is less than the pump can supply. When only one or a few faucets are open, the pressure increases to 60 PSI and the 60 PSI CSV would go to work reducing the pumps flow to match the amount being used and maintaining 60 PSI constant.

 

[Valveman]

I don't think the CSV is bad. And replacing the Cyclestop valve would require pulling my pump, since it's hanging in line. I'm putting in the extra tank and I'll see if that helps. I'm ordering my tank now. I need a T to connect it, but obviously I don't need a second T kit with pressuer switche, etc. Should I just put in a stainless or brass T with drain vavle and a couple cut offf valves on each side , in case I need them later? Also , my current pressure valve is rated at 80 psi. should I replace that with 100 psi valve or just turn the sustem back down to about 60 psi once I get the other tank installed?
Can I sisimpy plumb the new tank inline after the the T kit and pressure switch that I already have, or does it need to go in front of the pressure switch?

When you have the PK1A kit with the pressure switch attached close to the 4.5 gallon pressure tank, another pressure tank can simply be teed into the water line anywhere after the CSV kit. The extra tank can be a foot after the PK1A kit or all the way on the other side of the house. When using a larger tank with a CSV, you simply adjust the pressure switch to get a 1-2 minute run time. With a 26 gallon size tank and a CSV maintaining 65 PSI or so as yours seems to be doing, the pressure switch setting will be something close to 55/75.

 

[Carl_NH]

As valveman said you can install the tank in the line before or after the current pressure switch, I would think it's easier to put the new tank on the floor and the black line from the well into that then back into your current line so its in series with the existing tank, Then the whole house filter after the pressure switch.

For the tank tee on the new tank just put a drain valve and plug the other ports, and your pressure relief valve should be ok at 80 PSI but it's not a bad idea to have a backup - so get a 100 PSI relief just in case you need to replace it eventually.

 

[Valveman]

Agree with you Steve, and how do you adjust the CSV setting when the CSV is inside the well casing - pull the pump?

The CSV's that fit inside the well casing are not adjustable. They come in 40, 50, or 60 PSI. As I explained to Woodchuckdad, the adjustment is all in the pressure switch. If you want a longer run time to fill the tank, turn the pressure switch up. If you want higher pressure when using water, you will need to use a CSV with a higher pressure setting. With the CSV in the well that would mean pulling it up about 10' and replacing a 50 PSI valve with a 60 PSI one. The CSV1A will not fit in the well, but can be adjusted from 15 PSI to 150 PSI as needed. But even the CSV1A can be ordered pre-adjusted to whatever pressure you want when using water, and then again, run time would be adjusted by the pressure switch.