Lister diesel generator?

[dejswa]

I am looking for a backup power source, that would be extremely reliable, serviceable and efficient for a rural setting, possibly for providing power if we head for total meltdown as we are doing. I want to go with diesel.

See this link:

Slow-Turning Lister Type 13,500 Watt Diesel Generator

I am curious about these generators. They are low RPM (1000), quiet and allegedly simple and low fuel consumption and easily burn veggie oil.

Disadvantage - very heavy and almost look sort of like a 'hobbyist' sort of thing.

What do you think?

DJ

 

[Egon]

You may have a difficult time buying a new one as they might not meet emission standards. Other than that they should be perfect for what you wish to use it for.

Lots of Google hits.

 

[IXLR8]

I looked at them at one time, I am still looking as I decided I wanted something portable. Most of the 'Lister type' engines are being made in India, they often are full of sand from the casting that needs to be cleaned up before use. They are about as simple as you can get and from reviews that I have read, that once they are set up properly... they will run forever. The original Lister engine was made in England and some of those have been running for 40 years basically nonstop. I called the place you linked to, they drop ship the generators, they generally don't have any in stock, I have no idea who the importer is, so I have no idea if they have been prepped properly. Search the web and you will find a post of a guy who bought a 'Lister type' engine and the steps he went through to clean it up before running it. It is a good read on what to look for and what is inside these engines. There are also some forums for the Lister and 'Lister type' engines with good info on them. There is a good deal of parts for them on Ebay. But you need to be careful that you know who made the engine as there are at least 4 different manufactures and for the most part, parts are not interchangable.

HTH

 

[RonMar]

I have a single cylinder 6/1 that I built a few years ago. As mentioned, there are some reliminary setup issues to make a reliable plant, but nothing that is terribly diffult to do. For the most part, the parts available ARE interchangeable provided they are for the same model. Pretty much all the vendors products follow the original lister designs. The listeroid manufacture is a cottage industry in india and I believe the parts for all the engines are only made by a few small plants. These parts are assembled by different vendors for export/sale.

I have some definite opinions about these plants, and I personally would not reccomend a twin. The first step to the decision on a generator is a power study and a determination of how much power you can live with(or without). Less is definitely more if you are planning one of these generator s for potential long term use. Probably one of their greatest benefits however is the ability to easilly harvest the engine heat for heating hot water or a dwelling. If you need heat, harvesting the heat immediatly makes them 30% more efficient...

 

[dejswa]

Thanks for the comments so far.

As an alternative, I am not opposed to a traditional small diesel engine. Seems that one can find either 3600 (more common) or 1800 rpm diesel generators. I suppose the 1800 RPM would last longer and be more efficient and be quieter.

I am working on a source WVO (waste veggie oil) which seems like it would more easily suit a Lister engine than a regular diesel engine.

I always see these on ebay:

NEW APOLLO DIESEL ENGINE GENERATOR & STICK WELDER - eBay (item 120388465964 end time Apr-06-09 08:52:58 PDT)

6500 watt diesel generator for $1299.00

Don't know anything about them, but you probably get what you pay for. And they are 3600 rpm as well.

DJ

 

[LC '92]

In a recent trip to Ethiopia, I found this generator at our guest house. The electricity went off and they cranked it up. It was fairly quiet and ran most of the building. No A/C there so the load was fairly small. Looks like this one is Chinese. It was not very well maintained and leaked diesel like a sieve, but it ran reliably. One cylinder and a very large fly wheel. Also 440 volts and 50 hertz.

 

[dejswa]

Nice pics - thanks.

Reminds me of another point.

One of my business partners has a 50 acre farm and bought a big chinese diesel generator. I searched around and found mixed reviews - everything from 'runs forever' to 'is a piece of junk that I had to totally rebuild - big mistake'.

He as never set it up or run it yet.

DJ

 

[RonMar]

Those pics look like a Changfa type horizontal diesel engine and a ST type generator head(same type genhead I have). I have only seen videos of them run, but am aquainted with a few people who are running them. One I know pretty well is making a cogeneration plant using one of these(recovering heat from coolant and exhaust). For extended operations, this really makes the most sense. You are burning the fuel, you might as well get the most out of it. That is how I still have hot water in my home, with only a 3KW backup generator. The normally wasted heat from the cooling system is sent to the hot water tank to maintain it at 120F. Any heat after that tank it hot, I dissipate in the house or dump outside as needed. This heat is basically free as it must be removed from the engine, and is usually dumped into the atmosphere as waste heat.

One thing the gentleman who is experimenting with the changfa notes is that compared to a Listeroid, the Changfa is a bit noisy and has that loud diesel clatter. But compared to the listeroid, the fit and finish of production is more refined. They are a little more technolgically advanced, with counter balance shaft, pressure lubrication and other refinements. But more parts, means more parts to break. One of the most appealing things to me about my 6/1 is the simplicity. I can have mine stripped down to a bare block in less than an hour with only a few hand tools(and a strong back). I also like that at it's 650 RPM running speed, I can hold a conversation across the top of a running engine. You are not going to get that from very many 1800-3600 RPM engines.

I don't know if you have looked, but there are a whole bunch of videos of these engines running on Youtube and Google Video. Searching "listeroid" or "Changfa" will get you some videos like these

YouTube - POWERLINE (LISTER) ENGINE
YouTube - LISTEROID LOVSON, BY D.S.ELECTRIC (2)

YouTube - Changfa China genset 12 KW WVO lister
YouTube - 20kw diesel generator

 

[Bill Barrett]

I'm in the middle of a generator build now. I pulled my hair out for over a year, befor pulling the trigger. Almost went with:
Lister Type Diesel Engines, Generators and Parts
I'm building a Listeroid with a ST, with maybe compressor too.
I'm still going to build a PTO unit in the future.







Mine was really clean, I found a small spot of sand and figured I'd go through it.
If you want more pics or follow what I'm doing let me know.

 

[JB4310]

Yeah, keep us informed, I was considering trying the same thing for a reliable back-up power source, read alot about the Listers.
How big is that ST genny 5K?, I like the idea of the 1800 RPM's. (4 pole) That connecting rod looks pretty impressive, not pretty, but heavy.

Ended up getting a 10 K pto unit.

JB.

 

[IXLR8]

Bill,
Keep us posted on your progress and findings. Where did you source your engine and gen head from?

 

[Bill Barrett]

This is what I did today.
Engine was clean, but I did a tear down just to double check.
I did find a little sand.
I am going to install a new rod bearing.


Here are some pics:
Tools I used on the inside.

Made my own timing marks.

Power washing after polish and grinding.

 

[RonMar]

This is what I did today.
Engine was clean, but I did a tear down just to double check.
I did find a little sand.
I am going to install a new rod bearing.


Here are some pics:
Tools I used on the inside.
View attachment 127909
Made my own timing marks.
View attachment 127910
Power washing after polish and grinding.
View attachment 127911

Be sure and check good up inside the piston. Any sand or debris there will find it's way down the rod and into the lube oil holes and thrash that new big end bearing. That is probably the reason the bearing it came with needs replacement after only the factory test run? Another good place to check is to press out the cylinder liner. I got a ton of sand out of the cylinder casting on my 6/1. The liner press out quite easilly on a drill press using a couple of wood blocks. Some have issues with excessive liner protrusion(greater than .010") out of the top of the cylinder causing head gasket leaks. Sand or crud under the lip of the liner near the top can cause it not to seat on it's shelf in the cylinder casting properly.

Another key thing to check is the backlash between cam gear and idler gear, and idler gear to crank gear. I do this with a magnetic base dial indicator and a rod or dowel thru the crankcase door. It is real easy to do with the cylinder and piston out of the way and no real loads on the camshaft. Unfortunatly the machine tollerances in india are not so hot, and sometimes the idler gear pinion bolt is off. Excessive gear backlash will pound the idler gear pretty hard, sometimes breaking it. The bronze idlers are more tollerant of this. An offset idler bolt can be used to dial in this backlash to acceptable limits(below .008"-.010"). Mine was around .025 on one of the measurements. An offset idler bolt got this down under .007" and got rid of a considerable ammount of gear train noise.

Did yours have any half paper gaskets under the cylinder base? That is one way they make up for machine errors in the block. When you do your lead squish measurements, put a piece of lead out near each edge of the piston directly above the piston wrist pin. The difference in lead squish across the piston will show you any crank/rod/cylinder misalignments and wether you have the propper ammount of half gasket installed.

It would be nice if the assembly plants where these things are made would discover the pressure washer...

I sure like mine, it is a lot of fun to run, and keeps the lights on for not a lot of fuel, when the grid can't.
Good Luck with yours.

 

[Bill Barrett]

Be sure and check good up inside the piston. Any sand or debris there will find it's way down the rod and into the lube oil holes and thrash that new big end bearing. That is probably the reason the bearing it came with needs replacement after only the factory test run? Another good place to check is to press out the cylinder liner. I got a ton of sand out of the cylinder casting on my 6/1. The liner press out quite easilly on a drill press using a couple of wood blocks. Some have issues with excessive liner protrusion(greater than .010") out of the top of the cylinder causing head gasket leaks. Sand or crud under the lip of the liner near the top can cause it not to seat on it's shelf in the cylinder casting properly.

Another key thing to check is the backlash between cam gear and idler gear, and idler gear to crank gear. I do this with a magnetic base dial indicator and a rod or dowel thru the crankcase door. It is real easy to do with the cylinder and piston out of the way and no real loads on the camshaft. Unfortunatly the machine tollerances in india are not so hot, and sometimes the idler gear pinion bolt is off. Excessive gear backlash will pound the idler gear pretty hard, sometimes breaking it. The bronze idlers are more tollerant of this. An offset idler bolt can be used to dial in this backlash to acceptable limits(below .008"-.010"). Mine was around .025 on one of the measurements. An offset idler bolt got this down under .007" and got rid of a considerable ammount of gear train noise.

Did yours have any half paper gaskets under the cylinder base? That is one way they make up for machine errors in the block. When you do your lead squish measurements, put a piece of lead out near each edge of the piston directly above the piston wrist pin. The difference in lead squish across the piston will show you any crank/rod/cylinder misalignments and wether you have the propper ammount of half gasket installed.

It would be nice if the assembly plants where these things are made would discover the pressure washer...

I sure like mine, it is a lot of fun to run, and keeps the lights on for not a lot of fuel, when the grid can't.
Good Luck with yours.

I just got mine down to the block.
I'm going to go through each part as it goes back together. So far it's been better than what I've read about. The rod bearing looked ok, but I ordered one today,12 bucks cheap insurance.
I ordered utterpowers CD, and been reading up on them for some time.
Any input is and will be appreciated.

 

[schmism]

bill were did you get your parts? Your ST head and your listeroid?

 

[jas67]

Here is a good site fir info on the Lister-type engines and gensets ( as well as others.)

Generator Heads, Generator Ends, Homemade generator, DIY Generator, Small Diesel, Generator, Lister, Listeriod, one cylinder diesel, Asian Diesels, off grid power, custom pulleys, custom sheaves,

 

[Bill Barrett]

Parts and Listeroid came from:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/lobstamang
ST came from:
http://myworld.ebay.com/motors_generators_and_stuff/
Went over to Ohio and picked it up.

 

[schmism]

Parts and Listeroid came from:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/lobstamang
ST came from:

Went over to Ohio and picked it up.

i considered driving over to OH and picking one up also.... how were they to deal with?

 

[Bill Barrett]

i considered driving over to OH and picking one up also.... how were they to deal with?

Guess it's time to pick this up again, sorry it's been so long!
They were great to deal with, my ST had lost it's residual magnetism, common problem, you just flash the generator with 12 volts
Mohammed hooked me up with his tech guy, we sorted it out no problem.

Check it out almost done!
YouTube - Listeroid banjo fitting

Thermostat housing.
new set Thermostat install

 

[Ray2210]

This guy knows listeroids and imports them. Yes he too has had start up problems at times but India is really the only economical source.

Eco Diesel Solutions Canada