Loader mounted snow blower

[Lowrider2120]

Thanks Leon...you're doing a fine job from afar!!

I just got the blower into my shop which was not a small chore. My 3510 is 48 miles South of my house at the new shop I'm building so I had to drag it over with a 4 wheeler and the pick it up with an engine crane to get it into the shop. Now to do some clean up and studying the whole mechanics of the thing. First snow here is usually late October so I have awhile to think about the design. Glad you talked me out of hydraulics!

I'm thinking 5 to 1 drive ratio will allow me to have a little extra umph if I need it. I usually run the blower at about 480 rpm PTO and it works fine except for heavy wet snow which is pretty rare except during Spring thaw.

 

[PILOON]

I am enjoying this discussion as 'been here done that'
I had a 4 ft Bervac and fabricated mountings to replace my FEL bucket.
By my calculations I needed 5 HP per ft of blower and located a Wisconsin that filled the needs.
Proceeded to mount the engine (easy enough) and good to go.
Well it did work out OK (until I hit a hidden metallic object) that trashed the blower.
I recall that the driven was 10 " and the Wisconsin used a 3" and the chain drive was # 40.
That calculated to run the blower at rated 500RPM using the engine at 2500 RPM.
I soon learned that I needed a chain tensioner as that chain liked to stretch. OK did that.
Actually the installation was what I'd consider 'awesome' as it performed just as I hoped (until I tried to ingest a hidden scrapped starter that was hidden under the snow)
At the time I considered dual V belts but due to snow (read wet) I felt that slippage would be a factor so went chain and sprocket.
All to say, yes you can do it and yes it will work.
In mt case the downfall was that the auger was rust welded to the shaft (did not know as it was a used blower) hence the destruction otherwise the project was a success IMHO.
IMHO a clutch mechanism is not needed as blowers have sheer pin protection both on auger and fan.
My only problem was starting the engine with the blower coupled as the load limited the start up RPMs. Here a clutch might have helped but I learned to 'work around' by bleeping the starter.
Actually it was an awesome installation and I wish it was still operational.
I had read (on TBN) that 5 hp/ft was the basis for blowers and would confirm that as my engine was 16 HP on a 4' blower so in fact perhaps even a bit overstated.

And Leonz, my friend, hi!.



o

 

[Lowrider2120]

Thanks for the confidence Piloon!!

5HP per foot would require a 25 hp for mine. Would we see any increase in torque with a 2 cyl engine to help with a "hard spot"? I kinda look at the impeller as a flywheel to carry some momentum in the system...maybe it's just a little bit but should help some, no?

 

[leonz]

Bonjour, Mon Ami Piloon!


Hello Lowrider2120,


The impeller by itself does not have enough mass and does not have the throw weight to act as a fly wheel :^(

As far as the new snow blower goes I would much rather see you call the folks at Wengers of Myerstown PA and see if they have an old scrapped Hesston swather crimper that they may in the yard(they made a lot of the uncabbed three wheel models) and has a good 4 cylinder Wisconsin air cooled engine that they could part out and sell you as they are perfect for this(they were used by Hesston to operate the axial piston pump that powered the wheel drive,sickle bar and and the rubber crimper rolls.
You can still buy parts for the electric start Wisconsin engines if needed and they are simple and easy to repair and have
complete dry air filters with precleaners on them too.

Short of that buying a New 2 cylinder Duetz or Hatz diesel with compression relief would be the other answer but the Wisconsin 4 cylinder gas engine with electric start would be the unit I would rather see you invest in. It may already have the manual Rockford clutch installed on it if it has not been stripped and set aside already.

The Rockford Manual PTO clutches are easy to adjust and repair-we had 7 of them on the fletcher mining equipment roof drills and the Joy face drill we used at the underground mine where I retired from as a diesel mechanic.

I dont want to steer you wrong Lowrider2120 I just do not like fighting with things and I know the Wisconsins and the manual Rockford PTO clutches are top notch and easy to work on and you can still buy parts for them.
If you stick with a quick hitch and a home built hitch stand to hold the engine, hitch and snow caster as one unit you will be all set and have a snow caster that can be used on other mules and if you set another mule up with a front three point hitch you will be the envy of the Magic Valley!

I hate the fact that the AG WEEKLY is no longer published!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lowrider2120]

WOW...that's a lot to think about.

I am going to set this up on a skid steer QD plate so it could be used on an QD equipped machine. If it works as well as I think it will it will take more than an arm wrestle to get it away from me!

 

[Balerguy2]

Lowrider2120,

I built a 3 ph Hydraulic Power Pac and used my 66" snow blower w/o the bucket.............. used 3/4" Hi & low pressure lines plus a 3/8" case drain. Used it 3 seasons but so little snow I have it listed for sale in the classifieds. In winter I have/had it mounted on my Kubota L4610 with LA-852 loader. On mine you don't wrestle the 85# Cast Iron pump unto the pto because its rack mounted via the 3ph. Whew!

Look up on TBN my build of it plus pull up the classified section here................ look for "deere" and "snowblower" and you'll see what I have. It works perfectly. Your SSQA should adapt with some cutting and welding.


Carl

 

[Piston]

Geez Balerguy, that would be a direct fit to my L4610!

 

[Lowrider2120]

Baler,

Very nice set-up! The double universal drive on the pump is clever making no need to fit the actual pump to the PTO shaft which is a PIA and it takes the weight and stress off the PTO as well. The hydraulic drive certainly has it's benefits but I think I'm sold on the self contained unit with a 4 stroke driving the blower. Thanks for the ideas!

 

[Balerguy2]

Piston,
Lowrider2120 & et al,

Thanks guys. Years ago I had a small skid-steer (Sperry/New Holland) that was equipped with a Wisconsin VH-4D, 4 cyl (ball bearings at both ends of the crank). I added and overhauled a 2nd VH-4D and drove the mounted 66" blower thru a #60 roller chain and Rockford BW clutch. It worked for years like that but I didn't like the engine mounted on the blower being almost in my lap. Plus running at peak torque (I think it was a little less than 2400 rpm) I felt a need at times for more torque but a little slower/ less of the lane/track width fixed the issue.
For those thinking of a similar direct engine setup a company that once was in Janesville, Wisconsin seems like one in Columbus, Ohio but may no longer................. manufactured direct aircooled snowblowers mounted at the front of 3/4 ton and larger pickup trucks. The company name was "Hansen" or something similar. Just saying. Don't know if they still exist.

 

[leonz]

Piston,
Lowrider2120 & et al,

Thanks guys. Years ago I had a small skid-steer (Sperry/New Holland) that was equipped with a Wisconsin VH-4D, 4 cyl (ball bearings at both ends of the crank). I added and overhauled a 2nd VH-4D and drove the mounted 66" blower thru a #60 roller chain and Rockford BW clutch. It worked for years like that but I didn't like the engine mounted on the blower being almost in my lap. Plus running at peak torque (I think it was a little less than 2400 rpm) I felt a need at times for more torque but a little slower/ less of the lane/track width fixed the issue.
For those thinking of a similar direct engine setup a company that once was in Janesville, Wisconsin seems like one in Columbus, Ohio but may no longer................. manufactured direct aircooled snowblowers mounted at the front of 3/4 ton and larger pickup trucks. The company name was "Hansen" or something similar. Just saying. Don't know if they still exist.

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Nope, The Hansen Snowblower Company died when the owner died probably 10 years ago so............

It was a simple design with SAE/ASTM parts that could be obtained locally with an air cooled gas engine but it lacked power and slick sheet lined chutes and spouts and solid augers rather than open ribbon augers which reduced the 2 stage snow blowers ability to throw the snow further. Using a rotating impeller drum that would bypass the chute would help with that issue at all times when directing the snow to the right or left to an open area is not an issue to get rid of it.

The Snowgo people have the Hansen snowblower designs now and they are not interested in improving the design.

I would certainly love to see a Wisconsin VH-4D mounted on a Reist Series 1000 single stage snow caster as it would
be so easy to put together and use.

The engine would be set on the right or left with the Rockford manual PTO with a plastic guarded PTO Shaft from the Rockford to a right angle one to one Boston Gear bevel gearbox that would would be connected to the right angle gearbox with a 2 piece PTO shaft yoke and cross bearings used to power the single stage snow blower rotor.

 

[Lowrider2120]

Does anyone know if there is a centrifical clutch that would work for this application?

 

[leonz]

Hello and good afternoon Lowrider,


Candidly, even the largest Hilliard centrifugal clutch would not work simply because the snow would clog and stay there
And unless and until you shut the entire machine down and wait for the energy to be dissipated by the crank shaft and the clutch has slowed to a stop otherwise the second you clear a plug the slip clutch may well grip and eat the one by one used to free it up.

I honestly believe a manual Rockford PTO clutch would serve you better using a used V-4 Wisconsin engine attached to a quick hitch as the snow caster will still be protected by the following;

1. the shear pins
a. cross auger shear bolts
b impeller shear pins

2. drive and driven shaft keys
a. the gearbox to impeller shaft key
b. the gearbox to cross shaft key
c. the drive sprocket shaft key
d. the roller chain in the event that it tries to eat something that stops it.
e.the driven sprocket shaft key

3. If the Rockford Manual PTO clutch is used with the Wisconsin V 4 engine the replaceable clutch plates are the last defense to protect the engine.

The small wood chippers get around this by using a heavy flywheel and a manual PTO clutch in most cases but a flywheel would not work well with a snow caster.






I would check with Wengers of Myerstown, PA or a local tractor scrap yard near the Magic Valley to see if they have a 3 wheel 1975 or older Hesston swather crimper that they have parted out and hope they have a complete engine and PTO to sell as one unit for you with spare clutch plates. There still is plenty of good iron out there.

 

[Lowrider2120]

I'm trying to get away from shear bolts. I've run friction slip clutches on bush hogs, mowers and the like and I don't see why they wouldn't work throwing snow.

A centrifical clutch that engaged at maybe 1800 rpm would allow the engine to run at an idle then engage as it was powered up. would NEVER try to clear a clog without shutting down the entire system. I ran my blower last Winter on 9 PTO hp from my BX 1500 and it did just fine in 20" to 24" fairly light snows and the only time I had problems with shear bolts was the heavy wet slush this Spring. I just bought some Fluid Film to help with the wet stuff and maybe a coating of PTFE in the chute will help too.

I know the gas engine will need more power than the diesel but I can always go slower in the heavy stuff.

Looks like major bucks with the Wis. engine and Rockwell clutch...I'm just a poor retired civil servant.

 

[leonz]

If it helps any,

The least costly option is buying slick sheet leftovers from Horn Plastics and attaching it to the cross auger housing with flat washer head bolts from Farmtek used to secure plastic slick sheet will be less work and you can line the chute and impeller housing too.

Another cure is one of Clarence's Impeller Kits to improve the efficiency of the impeller paddles and eliminate almost all clogging from all types of snow and slush.

Between the two fixes and perhaps cutting small teeth in the auger ribbons with a sawzall your small mule will have no issues with snow and you can throw it at your neighbors yard it will be thrown so far.

You will be spending much less money for upgrading the existing snow caster and its impeller by lining the cross auger housing and the impeller housing it with slick sheet and adding Clarence's impeller kit would solve a lot of your issues.

There are plenty of you tube videos of Clarence's impeller kits improving walk behind and larger snow blowers.

Much less money for a better snow caster.

 

[Lowrider2120]

Agree with the friction reducing up grades and I have about 3/16" clearance between the impeller and housing so that seems just right.

I'm looking for a lightly used 25 hp Kohler or maybe a Honda V twin or at least a B&S Pro model to provide power. I think I have most of the mounting and drive system worked out in my head except the clutch...the Rockwell seems too heavy duty for what I think will be appropriate...still looking.

 

[leonz]

Hello Lowrider,




if you use a single roller chain drive with a toothed spring tensioned snubber pulley you should be fine.

The Hansen snow blowers used a direct chain drive with a Lovejoy coupler and they adjusted the engine position to take up chain stretching over time using a threaded rod to push the engine back - tis is why I suggested the V belt and snubber set up as the engine does not have to be moved the snubber pulley and spring arm do all the work once you have the right belt length measured to account for the need to tension the V belts to power the bevel one to one gearboxes

The Reist folks use a chain drive system like this to power the single stage rotor on their series 1000, 2000 and 3000 snow throwers through the right angle PTO gearbox.

A two row chain drive set up with the engine close to the gearbox would work. You would just have to purchase a remote operating cable for the engine to control it. At most all you would need is to purchase a longer weather proof power cable for the pendant control.

 

[Fallon]

I'm trying to get away from shear bolts. I've run friction slip clutches on bush hogs, mowers and the like and I don't see why they wouldn't work throwing snow.

I'd guess water & melting snow could re-freeze gluing the clutch together. It would then take a lot more force to make it slip.

The extra annual maintenance on slip clutches is annoying. Just did my tiller clutch annual & that takes over half an hour. Never had to do anything with my sheer pin on my rotary cutter.

 

[Lowrider2120]

I'd guess water & melting snow could re-freeze gluing the clutch together. It would then take a lot more force to make it slip.

The extra annual maintenance on slip clutches is annoying. Just did my tiller clutch annual & that takes over half an hour. Never had to do anything with my sheer pin on my rotary cutter.

You're supposed to do maint. on slip clutches?! My bush hog was 20+ years old when I sold it and I think I might have pressure washed it in the fall and always lubed as needed...never touched the clutch and it worked fine when I hit something too big to cut. Freezing of water in the clutch could be a problem though.

Leon,

More ideas! #2 son wants belts and not chains, but then he's not building it.

 

[leonz]

Number two son needs to be put over your KNEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Two row 60 chain with Lovejoy couplers, Boston Gear right angle bevel gearbox and two row tensioner sprocket arm, no less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at the Reist Videos to see how simple they do it.

 

[Lowrider2120]

That worked 25 years ago.