Loader Valve / Curl function diagnosis

[GPintheMitten]

I finally got a chance to work on it today. I switched the joystick around and attached my Kubota joystick to it. It definitely changed the functions.

Tomorrow I'll change the hoses around. It should be back to normal then.

 

[Leejohn]

great!

 

[GPintheMitten]

I switched the hoses and the joystick now works the way you would expect...sort of. Forward is down, back is up right is dump and left is curl up.

BUT, if I move the lever forward to far the boom goes up. What the heck did I do wrong.

 

[Leejohn]

Sounds like you have the regen on the boom and the bucket on the float. See if the bucket is in float by back draging in float detent, handle to hard right. Other then that I'm not sure. Just follow the instructions to the T don't skip thru it. After that post back.

 

[LD1]

Certainly sounds like a regen. Regen pressurized both ends of the cylinder, resunt is extension. First detent in that direction should power the base end of the cylinder, sounds like yours is powering the rod end, thus the reversal in direction. But either way, that valve needs to be the curl/dump

 

[GPintheMitten]

Ok. Thanks guys. I'll check that out this afternoon and report back.

Oddly enough, I just switch the hoses yesterday. I guess they were right before.

 

[LD1]

Not familiar with the valve, but it sounds like more than just the hoses. The valve that currently has the up/down hoses with regen needs to be the curl hoses. (and hooked up correctly as I mentioned so regen will work). But simple swapping hoses will make the joystick wrong where up/down would then curl/dump.

Control lever and hoses aside, the one with regen needs to be on curl/dump.

 

[LD1]

I just studied the diagram for a bit and their pictures of A and A1 dont seem to jive. They show the valve spools as being inverted, but both pics show the work ports out the right.

Basically if you look at the spools where the rod end hooks to, the one that has the flats oriented lengthways is for the lift/lower/float. The one that has the flats oriented left and right and nexted to where the fixed rod end hooks, thats your dump/curl/regen valve.

Thats where the diagram gets wonkey, cause in one pic it shows the lift valve next to the in port, the next pic it shows the curl valve next to the in port. Those DONT swap. The regen and float functions are built in and cannot be swapped. All you are doing is changing weather the joystick pushes or pulls on a given spool based on the direction you mount the valve.

So, all that said, here is what I would do:

Now that you know how to tell which spool is the lift and which is the curl, their ports will match up. IE: if the valve is mounted so the lift/lower spool is furthest foward, then you will use the A and B ports that are furthest forward for that function.

So now that you know what pair of hoses go to what function, Make sure the hoses that connect to the BASE end of the cylinders for curl and lift go to the corresponding A ports. And the rod end hoses go to the B ports.

That will confirm the hoses are correct. Anything else from that point that dont work right is something not connected correctly per the A and A1 orientation diagrams.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Thanks for investing the time into helping me, LD1.

And Leejohn as well.

Will report back after I examine it more closely and swap as appropriate.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I switched the hoses. The float is now on the boom and regen on the curl dump.

Now I have to get the joy stick switched up so it makes some sense. After switching hoses, I now have to think every time how to move the joystick to get it to do what I want.

Anyway, switching the joystick is for later this week


Thanks again for everyone who helped.

 

[LD1]

Keep us posted.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I think the ports are wrong. I used it yesterday and I think the float is on the bucket. It goes floppy when I move the joy stick too far.

I wonder if the problem with the boom I had before I switched hoses could have been hoses on the wrong end of the lift cylinders.

I'm going to switch the hoses between the lift and curl again and test it again. Then I might switch the two boom lift hoses.

It is difficult to trace which hose goes to the base of the cylinders because Kubota used hard lines inside the boom.

 

[LD1]

I think the ports are wrong. I used it yesterday and I think the float is on the bucket. It goes floppy when I move the joy stick too far.

I wonder if the problem with the boom I had before I switched hoses could have been hoses on the wrong end of the lift cylinders.

I'm going to switch the hoses between the lift and curl again and test it again. Then I might switch the two boom lift hoses.

It is difficult to trace which hose goes to the base of the cylinders because Kubota used hard lines inside the boom.

HArd lines IN the boom is indeed a problem tracing.

I am not sure it was incorrect before, since you mentioned the reversing of direction....tells the THAT was the regen circuit.

Hard to help without actually being there.....

Are you positive you have the valve linkages hooked up correctly as per the A and A1 diagrams? And refer back to my last post #68 about the orientation of the flats on the spools. Make sure when you move the lever fore and aft that it is operating the lift spool. And when you operate it side to side it is the curl spool.

IF you are positive the valve is mechanically correct, its just a matter of hoses now. Maybe do them one circuit at a time? Would be a good place for QD's

 

[GPintheMitten]

Yes I have qds. When you mention the flats, what's that? Doespecially it matter if the spool is turnd?

 

[LD1]

Flats meaning where the linkage hooks to the spool. IT has two sides ground flat so it isnt round anymore.

Look at the diagram for the valve. if a spool is turned, orient it correctly. (180 degrees off dont matter). IE: there are 3 connection points for the lever (pivots). Two are the two spools, one is part of the valve body. The spool right next to the valve body pivot should be oriented with the pin going through it the same direction as the one on the valve body. The other spool 90 degrees off of that.

And that should make it so no matter wether A or A1 configuration, the spool that is right next to the valve body pivot, and oriented in the same direction, is the CURL spool that operates when the lever is moved left and right.

The spool all by itself and with the pin and flats 90 off from the other spool and valve body mount...thats the lift and lower spool that operates when the lever is pushed forward or pulled back.

Is that the operation you are seeing mechanically? When pushing and pulling and when moving left and right, are the correct spools moving?

 

[Leejohn]

Look for colored paint spots on the hard line and colored tape on the flex lines if still there.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I'll look for paint marks.

Right now I'm not too concerned with the joystick. I first want to get the right spools on the right function. Then I'll work on the joy stick. Nothing to report yet.

I have figured out how to get the bucket working. I got a couple things to do then I'll get back to fixing it right.

 

[LD1]

Did you ever get this figured out?

We just put one of these joysticks on dad's 444, same orientation with the lines coming out the right. Now that I actually see things first hand, I cannot see a way to make things work. Their a and a1 diagrams don't jive with what's actually going on.

When you rotate the base plate 180degrees to convert to a1, it puts the stationary pivot point next to the other valve. This makes moving the joystick fore and aft operate the other spool.

To go from left to right outlets, it should operate the same spool, just the opposite direction.

Setting the spool up according to their a1 and lines coming out the right does the following:
Joystick forward is regen
Joystick back would be curl
Joystick right is float
Left is raise.

Going from a to a1 only seems to turn the functions 90 degrees and leaves the curl/regen backwards.

 

[GPintheMitten]

No I haven't worked on it since. I have figured out how to operate it asis.

Oddly enough, after putting this valve on and then still having a problem, I replaced the qds. Then it worked.

So I think my original problem may have been just the qds. So the original valve may be ok.

One of these days I'll put the original valve body back on and if works, I'll repurpose the replacement valve to rear remotes that I would like to install.

I'll report back after I make the swap, but it will probably not be until spring.

 

[LD1]

Was hoping you figured something out with this one. I thin the literature is wrong in how this valve works. Everywhere is closed, I plan to call brand directly Monday and get some things cleared up