Loader w/out power steering

   / Loader w/out power steering #1  

diulin

New member
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
15
Location
Bradford
Tractor
Massey Ferguson 1705, Ford 1700
I've been trying to find a loader to put on my Ford 1700, but I was just told by a Ford tractor repair shop that it's a bad idea to put a loader on a tractor without power steering. The Ford 1700 came with power steering as an option, but I guess my grandpa didn't see the need. Seems to me that tractors have had loaders for longer than power steering has been an option, but I'm pretty new at this game. Should I stop trying to find a loader? I'm guessing that a retrofit with power steering would be a really big job. I could just trade in the tractor, but it was my grandfather's, and it's in pretty good shape.
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #2  
Power steering like day and night,bucket of materials traveling over rough or even ground make sure your hands on the outside of steering wheel more so if frontend tires are narrow.
I had Kubota over 15years with no power steering with turf tires.
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #3  
I've done loader work with no power steering.

It is a lot harder to do the job since you can't turn the wheels when stopped. You have to be rolling and plan where your wheels need to be positioned before you stop.

Not impossible, life is just better with power steering.

Personal experience is it's usually very expensive to put a loader on an older tractor that didn't have one unless you luck into a salvage deal where you can get loader, mounts and hydraulic connections off the same tractor model.
 
   / Loader w/out power steering
  • Thread Starter
#4  
I've done loader work with no power steering.

It is a lot harder to do the job since you can't turn the wheels when stopped. You have to be rolling and plan where your wheels need to be positioned before you stop.

Not impossible, life is just better with power steering.

Personal experience is it's usually very expensive to put a loader on an older tractor that didn't have one unless you luck into a salvage deal where you can get loader, mounts and hydraulic connections off the same tractor model.
Thanks. That's definitely not what I want to hear, but I'd rather hear it now than spend a lot of money only to be left with a tractor (or, worse, a pile of parts) that I can't use!
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #5  
I have just finished fitting a loader to a Massey Ferguson 35. It has no power steering or live hydraulic pump, so it's hard, slow work using it.
I would agree that fitting a loader to an older tractor is a questionable exercise. I wish I had saved my time and money for the time when I will buy a newer tractor with a loader already fitted.
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #6  
My first tractor -1982 Ford 1700-4WD-NO power steering - had a factory FEL. I was 40 years younger and didn't know any better. Now my 2009 Kubota M6040 HAS power steering. What a difference.

Like Farmer495 said - at a dead stop, with a full bucket - you waited until you were moving again before attempting to turn the wheel. You might get lucky and find a Ford FEL - however, I would guess it will like looking for hen's teeth.
 
   / Loader w/out power steering
  • Thread Starter
#7  
I have just finished fitting a loader to a Massey Ferguson 35. It has no power steering or live hydraulic pump, so it's hard, slow work using it.
I would agree that fitting a loader to an older tractor is a questionable exercise. I wish I had saved my time and money for the time when I will buy a newer tractor with a loader already fitted.
Thanks for sharing that. I'm sorry you had that experience, but I appreciate being able to benefit from it! (btw, my other tractor is a Massey, so I guess we own a similar combination.)
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #8  
Thanks for sharing that. I'm sorry you had that experience, but I appreciate being able to benefit from it! (btw, my other tractor is a Massey, so I guess we own a similar combination.)
'67 Ford 3000 diesel is my other. I find it "harder working" and more comfortable for longer tasks than the MF 35 from '62.
Happy tractoring!
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #9  
I have two small Kubotas with loaders and no power steering. Even with all the work ive done with them, i haven't spent too much time thinking about converting them to power steering because at the end of the day, it's just.. not that bad!

BUT, there are a bunch of contributing factors. First thing is weight hanging behind the rear axle transfers weight OFF the front axle. One of my Kubotas has a backhoe on it and that tractor is much easier to steer than my other one, on which i mostly use a ~450lb box blade as counterweight. Pound for pound, the further behind the rear axle it is, the more difference it will make in steering effort improvement. So for example, tire fill will not change steering effort noticeably, but putting the same amount of weight on the 3pt will show some improvement.

Another thing is front tire/wheel details. When you don't have power steering, changes to front tires or wheels can make a huge difference in steering effort. It mostly has to do with tire scrub and scrub radius. You can think of your tires' contact patch on the ground as a circle or oval. Ideally you would like that circle to be somewhat near the point where the imaginary line of your steering axis touches the ground (ie if you drew a straight line through your kingin or upper and lower pivots, to the ground). The further your contact patch is outside of that point, the more the tire must roll backward and forward as it turns, which adds effort and makes the tire susceptible to everything in that area of the ground. You can imagine if your tire had to roll UP an incline or bump during its arc, that you would essentially be using the steering system to slightly jack up the entire front of the tractor (huge effort). At least if it spins mostly in place the effort will be more consistent. The other thing is how wide the tires are. Narrower is generally better for steering effort unless it is sinking into the ground. That's going to depend on ground conditions but if you are operating on fairly hard surfaces narrow will be better. Another thing is air pressure and tire stiffness. As you add a bunch of weight to the front tires they will squish down a bit and the contact patch will grow, making the 'swept' or scrubbed area larger, requiring more effort to turn the wheel. So, you should generally run your front tires at max rated pressure for loader work (many go above that but that's a separate topic). If you replace the front tires you would generally prefer a higher ply count, ply rating (not actually the same thing), higher load capacity, or higher max inflation pressure. Those traits all have a lot of overlap as to what they mean about the tire, so you go by whatever specs you can find.

Another thing to remember is this: Most loaders can push the front wheels of the tractor off the ground a little bit even when the bucket is fully curled and holding something. You usually have the option to push the front tires up, spin them effortlessly over the other direction, and put them back down. This is handy when you need to do a lot of steering in a short distance.

Power steering conversions are also possible, but they are usually pretty advanced DIY projects (a lot harder than adding hydraulic remotes, for example) unless you swap on a factory-style setup or someone makes a 'kit' for your tractor.
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #10  
I had tractors for years with loaders and no power steering. THE THING TO FOCUS ON IS HAVING A LOADER AND NO POWER STEERING SURE BEATS NOT HAVING A LOADER AT ALL.

You learn how to compensate.... Things like steering on the bumps or carrying less. Also learn about lowering the bucket to the ground, moving the wheel a few degrees, lifting the bucket, and continue...

I used to go to bed dreaming about schemes to add power steering. But adding PS is pretty advanced mechanically and I wasn't at the time. Then one day we bought a tractor with power steering & the whole world changed.

It was the same with cars and trucks. PS used to be rare even in large trucks - and pretty much non-existant in the average Ford or Chevy passenger car. We got along. Sure beats hoofing it.

rScotty
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #11  
Thanks. That's definitely not what I want to hear, but I'd rather hear it now than spend a lot of money only to be left with a tractor (or, worse, a pile of parts) that I can't use!
I have a Yanmar YM2310. It has an aftermarket loader and no power steering. I am adding power steering. I have everything done but the plumbing. With a load in the bucket I have had the wheel torn from my hands more than once in soft earth. Even though it doesn't have power steering yet it is not impossible to use. I just need to be careful. I know when I get the power steering finished the tractor will be much easier to use.
Eric
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #12  
That brings up another good point..

People who have raced cars with added traction (slicks) and no power steering understand this danger.. feedback through the system can injure your fingers/hands/wrists. So you try to resist the temptation to wrap your thumbs around the inside, or especially to stick your whole hand on the inside of the rim as people sometimes do when making u-turns in cars, etc.

A power steering system adds a lot of resistance to that feedback but doesn't totally prevent it, usually. Some people add fully hydraulic steering (no mechanical shaft connection, usually called hydro steer among offroaders and hydrostatic steering among tractor owners) to their off road rock crawler builds and have the option of using cylinders with pilot operated check valves which actually DO prevent feedback to the wheel but also don't self-center or do the other normal 'self movements' that a steering system usually does.

Whether you have power steering or not, you have the option of installing a steering damper like a lot of trucks use. That would resist the steering wheel whamming your hands around when you bump into or over things while carrying a load.
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #13  
Operating a non-power steering MF135 with manure dump bucket for decades gave me Popeye arms. Great when you’re young. Appreciate modern loaders and power steering now.
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #14  
I drove a R model Mack 10 wheeler in the city helping a guy one day with no power steering.
It sucked.

I wouldn’t even get on your tractor without PS.
They once plowed fields with horses too.
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #15  
I sold two older tractors with FEL and no power steering to buy one with power steering. No way would I own another FEL tractor with no power steering.
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #16  
No power steering is like having a case of hemorrhoids something
you can do very nicely without!!
My uncle had an old 1020 all iron and if it wasn't running you would
not turn the steering wheel and then when it was running you had to
use both hands and a lot of muscle to turn!

willy
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #17  
I would keep grandpa’s tractor for nostalgic purposes and use it with 3ph implements. Then spend my money on a modern tractor with a loader and power steering for loader and other hydraulic uses.
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #18  
No power steering is like having a case of hemorrhoids something
you can do very nicely without!!
My uncle had an old 1020 all iron and if it wasn't running you would
not turn the steering wheel and then when it was running you had to
use both hands and a lot of muscle to turn!

willy
I remember well when the JD 1020 came out. Power steering was an option, but not popular because there was really no use for it. At the time it was common to carry heavy 3pt implements on the back, and Front End Loaders were pretty much unknown on utility size tractors. So steering was easy enough.

I don't think that JD even offered a front end loader on that size tractor. I never saw one. Loaders on small tractors didn't become popular until the small Japanese 4wd diesel tractors started to appear - and for that we had to wait another decade after the 1020's era.

Since power steering was available as an option on the 1020, anyone who wants bad enough can probably find one today. And there may still be aftermarket PS kits too.

Grandpa's tractor is not only nostalgic, it may be worth upgrading for far less than the cost of a new one.
rScotty
 
   / Loader w/out power steering #19  
I have a 1700 with loader / without power steering. As stated previously, you think ahead as you come to a stop to have the fronts positioned correctly. No big deal, it becomes 2nd nature. If you forget, and there is room, drop the bucket, turn the wheels, keep going
Not asked, but will answer anyway, the 1700 is light in the rear, you will need counterweight / rear wheel weight. If it is 4 WD, the early models (until sometime in 1978 had small / weak front spindles prone to snapping if a loader was used.
 
 

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