Local man dies for freedom of choice

[J_J]

Why is this post going on and on. It was just an accident. Something not planned. I don't wear seat belts cutting by water. How many of you have ever gone in the water with a seatbelt on. It is not fun, fear takes over and you hold on to what ever, and hope it stops soon before your breath runs out. I learned the trick of having my hand on the seatbelt release, and when everything was still, I then released and watched the bubbles and followed then to the surface. Yes I have been through clear air turbulence also, and seat belts would have prevented me from getting thrown around and hurt. That seatbelt is not a guarantee of anything. It is an aid to survival.

I flew in the Navy P3 Orion as an aircrew member for 15 years, and we were required to wear seatbelt on take offs and landings and other turbulent conditions, and we could put on a parachute in less than 30 seconds. Lucky me, I never had to use it. If you have to bailout In the north Atlantic, you will most likely die of fear knowing you are going to freeze to death in about 8 minutes.

 

[arrow]

Why is this post going on and on.

Because it seems as what we do with every safety issue. We expound from all sides because somewhere in all of us, aside from the fear of something bad happening to each and every one of us, there is a part of everyone here saying somewhere inside, "boy, I'm glad that didn't happen to me" Each one of us says that in a different way and maybe we all sleep a little better as a result after we share and get it all out of us.

 

[Bird]

It seems that most of this thread is indicating that the poor fellow died because of his freedom of choice to not have a ROPS and seat belt. Well, some of us older folks used tractors a great deal before they put ROPS and seat belts on them. So I don't see this death as being due to a lack of ROPS and seat belt (safety devices which I like and used, but which may or may not have saved him), but instead was due to him mowing too close to the water and allowing the tractor to turn over.

And then of course, since I've not seen an autopsy report, we don't even know but what he might have had a heart attack and died before he got near the water.

 

[patrick_g]

All I can say is that as risky behavior goes.. there are levels.. and you weight your riss and go based on the gains.

For instance.. trator operating without a rops... this entails a risk with a tangible gain.

Now.. jumping out of a perfectly good airplane with a fabric bag and some strings tied to yuor back.... not much tangible gain there.. but entials a good bit of risk.

If we are going to mandate 100% safety on any task.. that means inherently dangerous activities must be completely abolished if they have no tangible gain.. this includes pleasure equine eventing.. which is considered an inherently dangerous activit by many states.. as evidenced by the equine reduced and -0- libility laws for participants in many states.. florida being one of those states.

Before you outlaw driving a tractor with no rops to get real tangible work done.. you MUST outlaw other dangerous activities that have no tanginble gain... Heck.. if we had passed legislation like this years ago....we could all be little government owned subjects/automatons.. and superman might still be alive... remember.. if we give up all our rights and it saves one person..... ( 100% pure BS!!!!! )..

I still say you are headed down the wrong road when you are ready to trade freedom for security..

soundguy

Oh, come on Soundguy, I'm the one who gets to exaggerate and employ reductio ab adsurdem!

Where do you get off stealing my thunder? Going around posing ludicrous absolutist propositions never originally posited to have an easily assailed trial horse. (Smiling and shaking head wile rolling eyes heavenward...)

Og the shame of it all!

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

Thank you Pat for your input

No worries, mate, glad to help.

Oh by the way... On my computer screen the quoted text has a very lightly "highlighted" background behind the otherwise normal text and is in a lined box labeled "quote." The background looks to be the lightest shade of blue.

Don't let little computer snafus bug you man, computers are just a passing fad.


Pat

 

[Soundguy]

I've been around ya too long.. and uh.. something's probably rubbed off!

soundguy

Oh, come on Soundguy, I'm the one who gets to exaggerate and employ reductio ab adsurdem!

Where do you get off stealing my thunder? Going around posing ludicrous absolutist propositions never originally posited to have an easily assailed trial horse. (Smiling and shaking head wile rolling eyes heavenward...)

Og the shame of it all!

Pat

 

[gemini5362]

Why is this post going on and on. It was just an accident. Something not planned. I don't wear seat belts cutting by water. How many of you have ever gone in the water with a seatbelt on. It is not fun, fear takes over and you hold on to what ever, and hope it stops soon before your breath runs out. I learned the trick of having my hand on the seatbelt release, and when everything was still, I then released and watched the bubbles and followed then to the surface. Yes I have been through clear air turbulence also, and seat belts would have prevented me from getting thrown around and hurt. That seatbelt is not a guarantee of anything. It is an aid to survival.

I flew in the Navy P3 Orion as an aircrew member for 15 years, and we were required to wear seatbelt on take offs and landings and other turbulent conditions, and we could put on a parachute in less than 30 seconds. Lucky me, I never had to use it. If you have to bailout In the north Atlantic, you will most likely die of fear knowing you are going to freeze to death in about 8 minutes.

I got a MAC hop one time and it was a p-3. Even though we were just passengers we had to practice putting on a parachute. Only plane I have ever flown it that made you do that.

 

[riptides]

Having followed the whole thread........ ROPS is an educational experience.

If you know about them, they could save your life. If your tractor has one it could save your life. Now why earlier tractors did not have them is perhaps a topic for discussion. Operating tractors that do not have them is what? Stupidity, or just not being educated?

My first tractor did not have one, and I never knew about them until I started looking at newer tractors.

I was not stupid, I was uneducated.

Accidents happen....

 

[Soundguy]

Wow.. what a stiff and condescending attitude to take! And very limited in scope.. limiting the the issue to only 2 possibilities of why older tractors did not have rops?!?

The didn't have rops for the same reasons we had open belt drives, open chain drives and no gear guards, and no stickers on moving parts that tell you you are going to get crushed standing there.

Liability! It's a huge issue now... wasn't so much 'back then'. It's certaintly not an issue of danger... the danger of a task back then and now is the same. (Safety features can mitigate some of those factors...)

Your example is akin to calling an ancient/pre-historic primitive tribe 'stupid' for hunting with spears and sticks instead of 1000$ hi power rifles and gps trackers, night scopes, and baited feeders.

So.. if I follow your analogy.. everyone that does not 100% mitigate safety issues is either stupid or uneducated? Nice! , after that statement I'd say you are now qualified to be a write-in in november!

soundguy

Now why earlier tractors did not have them is perhaps a topic for discussion. Operating tractors that do not have them is what? Stupidity, or just not being educated?

My first tractor did not have one, and I never knew about them until I started looking at newer tractors.

I was not stupid, I was uneducated.

Accidents happen....

 

[js5020]

Ok, I wasn't the only one who took the post that way,, not offended,,, and neither stupid nor uneducated. I don't think having/not having a ROPS makes one personally inferior or superior in any manner. If yours has one it has one and if it doesn't it doesn't,,,,