redneckford
Platinum Member
Just be careful what ever you do---be sure all the wrapper is off the gum before you chew!!!!---and the coffee ain't to hot!!!
Local man dies for freedom of choice
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MossRoad
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Our cars may have had seat belts due to liability, but we were not required to use them until 40 years later when the insurance industry pushed for laws because broken people were cutting into their profit margins.
I started using mine in the early 80's after I got in a wreck while not wearing one. I smacked my head on the windshield and knocked myself silly while still in 1st gear. Lesson learned. For that matter, you still have a few choices not to use seat belts today. One choice is just don't wear them and pay if you get caught. Another choice is to drive old cars that don't have them.
MossRoad
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If you do not know about a safety device, then it is not your fault.
If you know about a safety device, and choose not to use it, it is a choice.
If you make a bad choice and end up as the topic at the Darwin Awards, you were most likely stupid.
J_J
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You all know that speed kills, but I would venture to guess that about 98% of all drivers speed, most about 5 to 10 mph over, and some at 20 plus all the time.
It certainly is a choice, but are we stupid, no, just an educated decision, hoping like he** we avoid that ticket.
How many of you drink to excess, and still drive. Please don't answer.
Some choices are disguised as hope. Hope it doesn't happen. Cold sweat, hair raising, chills and all the rest.
The choices you make affects you and sometimes others.
Wisdom is acquired, non use of that wisdom is a sin.
It certainly is a choice, but are we stupid, no, just an educated decision, hoping like he** we avoid that ticket.
How many of you drink to excess, and still drive. Please don't answer.
Some choices are disguised as hope. Hope it doesn't happen. Cold sweat, hair raising, chills and all the rest.
The choices you make affects you and sometimes others.
Wisdom is acquired, non use of that wisdom is a sin.
Soundguy
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Yeah.. I felt it smacked of brittle close minded, inside the box smug thinking... The type of stuffy speech-talk that gets used to brainwash the masses...
soundguy
Soundguy
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Here's a sad occurence that just happened last week in the city 4 miles north of me..
A school bus was stopped on the 4 lane.. stop sign deployed, lights flashing.. unloading kids at the end of the day... A semi-truck driver, on his cell phone, plowed into the back of the bus.. no sign that he tried to stop... crushed the rear of the bus.. pushed the bus a couple hundred feet.. semi-cab and bus erupted into flames.
A few brave motorists and people in the area jumped into the burning bus and grabbed as many kids as possible.. one 13yr old child, sadly, was pinned behind crushed chairs in the back of the bus and was not able to be rescued.. she died. It is our only school bus fatalaty in our county.. ever... Now.. on the front page of our local paper.. victoms parents are pushing for more stringent 'school bus safety rules'.. yada..yada..yada..
Is it just me.. or does it seem like the bus was plenty safe as there have been no bus fatalities ever until now....
maybee they should clammer to put rules into place to keep semi-trucks from slamming into the back of stopped busses ? Ya think?
What this illustrates is that grief stricken people lash out and try to make the wrong people responsible for something.. instead of simply focusing on the REAL responsible party.. in this case.. the truck/trucking company/truck driver.. etc. ( the truck had been grounded by DOT earlier that day for a brake probelm.. but was released.. presumably because the brakes were 'fixed'.. investigation is ongoing into that issue to see if dot released the truck too soon.. or the brakes really were fixed.. etc.. etc.. )
soundguy
A school bus was stopped on the 4 lane.. stop sign deployed, lights flashing.. unloading kids at the end of the day... A semi-truck driver, on his cell phone, plowed into the back of the bus.. no sign that he tried to stop... crushed the rear of the bus.. pushed the bus a couple hundred feet.. semi-cab and bus erupted into flames.
A few brave motorists and people in the area jumped into the burning bus and grabbed as many kids as possible.. one 13yr old child, sadly, was pinned behind crushed chairs in the back of the bus and was not able to be rescued.. she died. It is our only school bus fatalaty in our county.. ever... Now.. on the front page of our local paper.. victoms parents are pushing for more stringent 'school bus safety rules'.. yada..yada..yada..
Is it just me.. or does it seem like the bus was plenty safe as there have been no bus fatalities ever until now....
maybee they should clammer to put rules into place to keep semi-trucks from slamming into the back of stopped busses ? Ya think?
What this illustrates is that grief stricken people lash out and try to make the wrong people responsible for something.. instead of simply focusing on the REAL responsible party.. in this case.. the truck/trucking company/truck driver.. etc. ( the truck had been grounded by DOT earlier that day for a brake probelm.. but was released.. presumably because the brakes were 'fixed'.. investigation is ongoing into that issue to see if dot released the truck too soon.. or the brakes really were fixed.. etc.. etc.. )
soundguy
riptides
Super Member
Stiff and condescending to who? I was uneducated, not informed, did not know any better.
I got educated the hard way.
Oh, right! I am sure back then they understood all the possible working conditions equipment was subjected to and just left off the ROPS or safe designs on purpose. No, field use, use by Joe/Jane public educated manufactures on better designs. Your telling me the risk of getting sued is a major factor in equipment design and upgrades?
No it is not. By learning primitive people started hunting in groups. They started using tools, designing new ones. Eventually primitive people died out but their lessons learned over time gave newer peoples the skills and tools to handle the same task with less risk to self.
No, I was saying they could be stupid or uneducated. Stupid is stupid, if one knows better.
Uneducated is not stupid. It just means someone or something has not imparted knowledge that you can process to make a choice.
So one can make a choice based on being stupid, or having some/part/all the knowledge to make that choice. A learned experience.
I take this back to my personal experience of operating a tractor without a ROPS or seatbelt. My Farmall had neither. I did not know that I was in danger of operating without those features.
I got educated the hard way.
Wow.. what a stiff and condescending attitude to take!
The didn't have rops for the same reasons we had open belt drives, open chain drives and no gear guards, and no stickers on moving parts that tell you you are going to get crushed standing there.
Liability! It's a huge issue now... wasn't so much 'back then'. It's certaintly not an issue of danger... the danger of a task back then and now is the same. (Safety features can mitigate some of those factors...)
Oh, right! I am sure back then they understood all the possible working conditions equipment was subjected to and just left off the ROPS or safe designs on purpose. No, field use, use by Joe/Jane public educated manufactures on better designs. Your telling me the risk of getting sued is a major factor in equipment design and upgrades?
No it is not. By learning primitive people started hunting in groups. They started using tools, designing new ones. Eventually primitive people died out but their lessons learned over time gave newer peoples the skills and tools to handle the same task with less risk to self.
No, I was saying they could be stupid or uneducated. Stupid is stupid, if one knows better.
Uneducated is not stupid. It just means someone or something has not imparted knowledge that you can process to make a choice.
So one can make a choice based on being stupid, or having some/part/all the knowledge to make that choice. A learned experience.
I take this back to my personal experience of operating a tractor without a ROPS or seatbelt. My Farmall had neither. I did not know that I was in danger of operating without those features.
Soundguy
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Your statement was broad and wide.. it implied that anyone, under any circumstances that did not use the rops.. etc.. was uneducated.. or stupid.. you left no other possibility for an explanation.. like.. Implied consent.
And Yes.. i'm saying that a major factor in safety equipment on machines nowadays is to reduce liability.
If a technology is not in existence yet.. and thus is not used.. it is not that a person -not- using it is uneducated or stupid.
For instance.. are we, the inhabitants of this planet stupid or uneducated because we do not have engine for our space vehicles that travel faster than light speed.. or are we uneducated because we do not yet have the capability to colonize other planets? No.. will we someday have these technologies? maybee.. but that does not mean we are currently uneducated or stupid. You can't declare 'uneducated' by future standards.. if so.. every 'great' mind thru history is stupid or uneducated because they do not know everything that exists now.. for instance.. was davinci stupid or uneducated because he did not know about quantum physics?
soundguy
And Yes.. i'm saying that a major factor in safety equipment on machines nowadays is to reduce liability.
If a technology is not in existence yet.. and thus is not used.. it is not that a person -not- using it is uneducated or stupid.
For instance.. are we, the inhabitants of this planet stupid or uneducated because we do not have engine for our space vehicles that travel faster than light speed.. or are we uneducated because we do not yet have the capability to colonize other planets? No.. will we someday have these technologies? maybee.. but that does not mean we are currently uneducated or stupid. You can't declare 'uneducated' by future standards.. if so.. every 'great' mind thru history is stupid or uneducated because they do not know everything that exists now.. for instance.. was davinci stupid or uneducated because he did not know about quantum physics?
soundguy
riptides
Super Member
I think the original note boxed everyone in. I offered the word uneducated into the mix to show that it can also be a learned/aquired or not behavior.
In your future example (based in the future context of time, looking back at the now) I would use the word - uncivilized.
davinci would be neither.
In your future example (based in the future context of time, looking back at the now) I would use the word - uncivilized.
davinci would be neither.
redneckford
Platinum Member
My great grand father lived to be 98, no roll bar on his mule. My grand father lived to be 96,no roll bar on his mule or horse. My father lived to be only 72, he had roll bars and seat belts on all his tractors,he didn't even own a horse. But he had to work in a chemical plant to be able to afford the tractors. I hope to live alot longer but at 49 I have to have a heart transplant. I got roll Bars on all my tractors but i can't even operate them---my sons do---i wish I just had a mule and I was 98!!! Life is not fair and it is full or risks----Risks as in Wall Street---can we put a rollover device on them clowns--more of my friends are stressed over that than a roll bar!!! Enjoy life that is the bottom line. It is sad the man died but i bet he would rather die on his tractor than having to sit on this d---porch!!!
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