Hi George,
I'll try to answer you as best that I can.
N80 said:
Eddie, have the problems you've seen been unique to log homes? That's the real issue. I've had several major repairs in my stick built home due to wood rot from improper roofing and flashing particularly in the eaves but in some walls too. With that being the case, why wouldn't you say the same thing about stick built homes? If its true about stick built homes them it is hardly a flaw, fault or feature of a log home.
Yes, the problems that log homes have are very unique to that style of home. I've seen it to a much worse degree in sheds with t1-11 siding too, but that's another topic altogether.
It's the overhanging logs that stick out in the corners, and the bottom several rows of logs where water either splashes off the roof without gutters, or with gutters that are nut working. No other home style has these issues that I'm aware of, or I should say, that I've dealt with. Water splashing off the ground is what I attribute the problem with the bottom rows of the logs that I've seen. It could also be that rain water running down them causes the problems, but I don't know why it would only be the bottom logs if that was the cause?
[/QUOTE] I also don't understand why you think the issue is regional. Is it just because of the humidity? I can't help but doubt that. You may have higher humidity in your region than mine, but it can be by much. As mentioned, I have 4 log homes from which to draw my experience, from 2 to 30 years old. Humidity and rot have not been issues. Why not? I think it is because they are well designed, well built and well maintained.[/QUOTE]
I've never worked on the East Coast and the only time I've spent there was a few months at Quantico VA when in the Marine Corps. I feel that the humidity is an issue here with the log homes and all exposed wood. Fences, trim and sheds all suffer from rot here. I'm told it's because of the humidity and rains that we get. I don't have any proof of this, it's just what others tell me and what I've seen of wood that's rotted out that I wouldn't expect to see in California. I'm from there and there is just about no humidity. Wood rot there is almost unheard of in comparing similar homes or structures.
I agree that being well designed, well built and well maintained is the key to everything. Unfortunately, it usually takes a decade or more to find out if it really is well built and designed. Some time, it's something silly that nobody thought of or noticed, but lack of maintenance is always part of the problem in just about every case. With enough sealer and water proofing, it wouldn't matter how much water hit a log home, it would never be able to rot. I agree with you on this 100%!!!
[/QUOTE]Eddie, you are right about how some folks look at a home, vs. how a builder or inspector might. And I don't normally spend a lot of time inspecting my cabin. But since this thread has been on my mind, I did a once over of my cabin, around and under. The surface of the logs look perfect. I'm not kidding. (Some might consider checking a flaw, I do not, its what logs do). And I'm no kidding about this either, but I walked around the cabin with a hose and squirted water on the walls. Even on the noticeably faded east and west walls, the water not only beads, it literally bounces off. If I keep the hose in one place, the water does begin to adhere since the surface is rough. But it dries quickly. I also spent some time poking and prodding looking for rot, mold, mildew, soft wood. I found none. There are a few places that need some caulk.
So my point is, if log homes are not a good idea in the south, why is mine holding up so well? And remember, I hired the cheapest, least experienced moron of a builder I could find.....me. The same B-I-L who helped me build it also helped build the one down the road 20 years ago. It is also in great shape. [/QUOTE]
If I gave you the impression that I'm somehow being critical of your log home or log homes in general, I'm not. I said early on that I would love to have one of my own and if we move to the Rocky Mountains, I will live in a log home. I really like them allot. Just not here.
As to why your home is doing so well, I can only speculate that you are probably a better person at taking care of it then those who do have issues.
The ones that I've seen, both to repair, to give an estimate to repair, or to look at with my realtor and a buyer, and all of the ones that I can remember have been owned by elderly people. Does this mean they let their homes go while younger home owners do a better job of staying on top of them? Maybe. I can't remember off the top of my head a messy home or an unkept lawn at any of those homes. In fact, from a distance, they all looked great.
I don't know if I could find any issues with yours or not. Most homes are in great condition, or just need a little maintenance to keep them from having issues down the road. My guess is that I would look places and test areas of wood with a skinny screwdriver that you might not have. Of course, I have no reason to doubt you that you checked your place really good. I'm just generalizing here. Same thing as talking to a mechanic about cars. He's going to notice things that I never would have thought of because he's fixed those things before.
I've just been hired to fix a very large church. The previous guy has been doing it for years and years, but it just keeps getting worse. They have leaks and he's saying they need a new roof. I took over 100 pictures of the building to show how poorly his workmanship was, the problems that he's created by not fixing them right, and how he either ignored, or covered up issues that he should have fixed, but have not become bigger problems. He has allot more experience then I do, but he's either lazy, or just doesn't care anymore. Either way, of the contractors that they had to look over the place, I found and documented far more then all of them combined. Once I get to looking, it just gets worse and worse.
[/QUOTE]I keep hearing this. Why does it take more to maintain than any other type? Mine will need staining again after nearly six years. How often do people paint houses with wood siding or trim. The wood trim on my residence was painted about five years ago. It needs it again. A few years after that and the Hardi-plank will need a coat too. I wouldn't say that logs are the easiest to maintain, but I would argue that they aren't significantly more time consuming than many other 'standard' materials.[/QUOTE]
First, I would consider a house with wood siding to be simlar as a log home for maintenance and rot issues. Wether it's lap siding, board and batton, T1-11 or fake log siding, it all takes yearly inspections maintenance. Staining the log home isn't even on my list of things that you have to do. Sealing it, calking it and ensuring the wood is water proof. Paint or whatever is used, it all has to be maintained on a regular basis.
From what I know, a well painted house with wood trim should last between ten to twenty years. It used to be 20 years easy, but paint wasn't very good for awhile there. I think it's getting better again with the premium brands and primers, but I don't have the experience to prove this.
Without reading back over the entire thread, are you the one who's using a preasure washer on your home? That can cause allot of issues. When I clean a house for a client who's either selling it, or just wants a clean house, I first spray on Zinsser house cleaner with a pump sprayer. I'm a big fan on Zinsser products, especially their primer. Then I just wash it off with a garden hose. In every case, the homes look like they just got painted. Obviously this only applies to dirty homes. Then a little caulking and touch up paint.
You really suprise me on your comments on having to paint Hardi again. From what I've seen, been told and experienced, Hardi holds paint for a very long time and holds it very well. You have me on this one since it goes against everything that I've seen with it. Hardi is a wonderful product that should hold just about any paint for decades. It does't rot, it's bug proof and it's just about impossible to burn. I'm at a loss.
[/QUOTE]I don't think there is anywhere that exposed wood is care free. But that does not (to me) make wood (siding or logs) a bad choice, even here down south. Log homes are popping up all over the place. There is a mansion on the cove my mom and dad live on that looks like a Cabelas store. Its got to be pushing ten years old and looks like new. There is another one just being completed just around the bend that is the nicest looking home on Lake Wylie in my opinion. I have a hard time thinking that these folks have made a poor choice. Time will tell.[/QUOTE]
Again, I'm not saying log homes are bad or that I don't like them. My comments are based on what I've seen and sharing those observations with anybody who's planning on building or buying a log home. I love the look of wood, but really try to avoid it for anything that's on the outside of a building. In every case that it's used, I either regret it, or try to talk the client out of it. Money talks, so I use it all the time, but I know it's just a matter of time until I'll be back to deal with it.
There is a flaw in assuming that something is good just because everybody is doing it. I know we're in agreement in our views of global warming and how silly that whole thing is. I also think we can agree that just because somebody has a bunch of money, does not mean they will build the best home. Of the million dollar homes that I've been in, it's shocking some of the sloppy workmanship that I've seen in them. Especially in the framing and wavey walls. It's just me, but I think that allot of those high dollar builders use the cheapest crews that they can find and hide allot of flaws in their homes with fancy trim, cabinets, flooring and lighting. The list goes on on fancy things they add to get the price up and hide the basic issues with the buildings.
If you ever get a chance to meet some cabinet, trim, counter or mirror installers, you'll hear some of the funniest horror stories about how badly those high dollar homes are built.
[/QUOTE]I don't doubt you for a second. But put that statement in context. If you are truly honest, don't you think you could say that about any type of home? It might not be true where you are, but it is here. Termites, rot, water damage, settling, etc. It happens to all home types around here, even brick. It doesn't matter what's on the outside; if termites eat your sill, you've got problems. [/QUOTE]
In a conventional, modern built home, there are layers of barriers. Each layer is designed to keep the elements out of a home, and it all has to fail for the water to get in and do it's damage. In a log home, you have one barrier, and that's the sealer that's on the logs. Maybe a treatment that's put into the logs in some cases, but that's sort of rare from what I know. In order for water to get to a framing stud, it has to get through the brick, then through the house wrap and then the OSB sheething. The most likey failure point on a stick built home is the sill plate. To protect that piece of lumber, it's preasure treated and installed over a foam barrier. Where termites are a problem, a termite shield is also used. I've never seen preasure treated wood used on a log home sil plate, but I don't build them either. Of the ones I've replaced the bottom logs, they were installed directly onto the cement with either tar paper or plastic between the logs and cement. I've never seen termites in a log home, but that doesn't mean they were not there. It could be that their tunnels are easier to spot on a log home, or it could be the chemicals on the logs stop them. I don't know, but you are right that they can be a terrible problem on a stick built home. I have a bathroom job in two months that was destroyed by termites. Cabinets and walls!!!! I'm realy worried about what I'll find when the sheetrock comes off, but that's just part of the job.
[/QUOTE]But for that warning to have context you would have to be able to say that a higher percentage of log homes have rot problems compared to other common types of construction. And for you to make such a statement would require you to know (or at least have a general idea of) how many logs homes did not have such problems.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what qualifications I would have to have to make this statment, but it is what I do for a living, and it's what interests me. I am a licensed general contractor and have been doing this full time since 2002, and part time since in was ten when I tiled my first bathroom on my own. Cut the tiles and installed them, which were still in place when that property was sold in 2001. I've worked on Victorians in the SF Bay Area (East Bay and Valley) to old plantation homes here in Texas. I've worked on and built modern homes in both states, and feel confident that I can repair just about any issue that can happen to a house short of foundations and HVAC in this part of the country.
Log homes have more issues then conventional homes. The exposed wood will rot before a stick built home, and they require more maintenance than a stick built home.
If you are a log home owner or planning on buying one, you should either accept that responsiblity and ensure that the home remains in good condition, or realize that the logs will rot. Having a full wrap around porch on all sides that keeps out all water from getting to the logs is probably the only solution to protecting the logs that is fool proof that I know of.
I think you don't have any issues to your log home because you take good care of it. I don't understand the need to paint your Hardi trim in your other home, but my guess is that you also take care of it and are causing the paint to fail. It's just my guess and I don't mean anything by it. I also think that you are not the typical home owner. Heck, you probably wash your tractor after you use it clean off your impliments. Some people take that extra step to take care of their stuff. I think you are that type of person. Unfortunately, most people out there don't do these things.
Eddie
Still don't like the electric part but it does what needs to be done. Which nowadays is washing the house trim. Our well is 100 feet from the house. The faucet we use is as far from the well as it can get. The PEX comes into the house goes into the attic, crosses the house, then goes back down the wall and finally gets to the faucet. Add enough hose to get around the house and there is not what I would call water pressure. 
