Log Splitter Project

rswyan · Jul 22, 2004

( As woodsman pete said, very politely, the two way detent is not a safe splitter valve. )

It isn't the valve that would be unsafe .... it would be the operator that was.

( You DO NOT want an uncontrolled hands off splitter, while you do something else. )

Really ? With all due respect - how do you know ? Actually, it is what I want.

( I find it interesting that you are building without more experience or understanding than you have. )

Well since you are being direct, let me be - how do you know what my experience or understanding (or capability to understand) truly is ? You are making assumptions (probably based on the questions I ask) My experiences in life are pretty broad - from working in oil refineries and chemical plants in Texas to working on fishing trawlers in Alaska.

( Please be careful, as you are playing with fire and do not know what you are getting into. )

Thanks - I appreciate the concern. I do have a little bit of an idea of what I'm messing around with and what I'm getting into (ever see an inch and half wire rope come apart while pulling a 90 ton cod-end full of fish from the ocean floor ? - it will cut a man in half in the blink of an eye)

( True, you will find out, but it may be the hard way and much more expensive than just buying a splitter designed by experts with experience. )

Appreciate the thought - but I've just never been a big fan of lack of experience stopping me from getting any. As far as the experts go, I've seen alot of commercially built products and my general impression with quite a bit of it is that those doing designing don't necessarily possess degrees in fluid engineering. An understanding of hydraulic fundementals, perhaps.

( Sorry if this is too blunt. )

Nah - as long as you don't mind me being direct as well.

( When safety is a real consideration, and I see someone jumping into something where they don't know what they are getting into, I feel some responsibility to speak. )

Safety is ALWAYS a real consideration - or should be.

rswyan · Jul 23, 2004

Mark,

Barberton is pretty much right around the corner (10 - 12 minutes maybe) and 619 (and 93) is about 5 minutes away. I did notice that Pineridge was in NEO - Canton is about 15 minutes from our place.

I've been checking ebay every few days for various things - no luck so far but I keep looking.

John Burden @ Surplus Center said that the valve I was looking at would work (pilot load checks are unnecessary) but suggested that I consider 4 x 25 x 1 1/2 inch cylinder - mostly from a price/shipping cost angle. With the unknowns on my PTO pump I don't know if it would end up being under powered or not - I'm going to try and see if I can get better info on the pump.

There was a guy just around the corner from me that had a good size tandem trailer sitting out in the front yard in the last week or so with a for sale sign on it - not sure if it was a 18' or not (had to be at least 16' though) The last time I drove by I don't think it was there but I'll check tommorrow and if it is, get the specs, asking price, and a number.

rswyan · Jul 23, 2004

FYI - some of my components came in today - including the valve - so I got to find out exactly what it was that Northern was actually selling (since they didn't specificy Prince's model no. for the valve)

It's a Prince LS-3010-2. From looking at Prince's catalog and numbering scheme it appears that it was part of the LS-3xxx series log splitter control valves - but it is not listed in the current catalog - so it may be a discontinured item.

..... maybe they were a little worried about having autopilot in both directions as well. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

MMM · Jul 23, 2004

Man, you'd think a splitter has a 1ms cycle time from all the safety talk here!. Might be a little safer to set detent on split stroke and walk away than stand near the action with handle actuated manualy. I like the upright splitter my buddy has, no lifting. Roll the chunk and stand her up. I think you'll be dissatisfied with 4" cyl on knotty wood though.
Have you given thought to combining flows of PTO and internal system via remote or power beyond from loader valve? 12gpm together? Still could be a hp problem. Might could check it ou buy hooking up hoe and causing both systems to relieve(curl loader and hoe buckets simultaneus.) I run a 23gpm pump off crank damper under the radiator and share oil supply with internal hyd. You would be limited to internal hyd relief press though.

rswyan · Jul 23, 2004

( Man, you'd think a splitter has a 1ms cycle time from all the safety talk here!. )

Heheheh ... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

( Might be a little safer to set detent on split stroke and walk away than stand near the action with handle actuated manualy. )

... that way one could be sure not to fall it into it .... and cut off yer head /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

( I like the upright splitter my buddy has, no lifting. Roll the chunk and stand her up. )

Last fall I went to Northern VA and cut up a bunch of trees (hurricane damage from a few years before) for a friend and split up all the wood (around 4 - 6 cords, mostly all oak) using his new vertical splitter he and his neighbor had just purchased from Lowe's. It actually worked pretty good (other than a fairly slow cycle time) with me crouching down and feeding it - I was surprised - but I'm fairly tall and I think for my own unit I'd rather go the stand up route. To avoid the lifting (at least for the bigger stuff) I might put either a manual (with mechanical advantage) or a hydraulic log lift on it.

( think you'll be dissatisfied with 4" cyl on knotty wood though.
)

I think you're right - the one I used in VA had a large cylinder on it (4 1/2 or 5 inch) and it slowed down and struggled on the gnarly ones. Of course cylinder size isn't all of the story - the operating pressure is the other side of the coin.

( Have you given thought to combining flows of PTO and internal system via remote or power beyond from loader valve? 12gpm together? )

No I hadn't - but that's an idea. I'd have to flush and refill the 'hoe and PTO pump. I initially filled them with Kubota UDT - but I put Kubota Super UDT in the tractor at the 50 hour service - wouldn't want to mix the two. Before I'd do that I'd probably see if I could pick up another pump that delivered more flow.

What I really need to do is just decide on and pick up a cylinder and get that part of it put together and test it see how it actually operates.

( Still could be a hp problem. Might could check it ou buy hooking up hoe and causing both systems to relieve(curl loader and hoe buckets simultaneus.) )

I'll try that when I get the 'hoe back on.

Part of my problem is just not knowing for sure what the pump actually output is and whether I'm reading the specs correctly. I think BigEddy is right about the output I can expect from this pump, given it's specs. It just surprises me that Kubota would use this pump (which is rated for 2750 RPM input) - although I must say the backhoe is usually plenty fast enough - the boom and swing are a little too fast for me - but I think that's just the springs in the control valves - it's taken me a bit to find the sweet spot. I generally operate the hoe with the tractor running at 1500 to 2000 RPM - but I know for sure that at 1500 RPM actuating multiple circuits on the 'hoe at once can stall one (or more) of the cylinders - just not enough juice. Hafta try running it at PTO speed (which I never have) and see what happens.

My tractor should have enough PTO HP to get 15 GPM @ 2250 PSI (the relief valve setting on the splitter valve) - however the pumps specs rate the input speed at 2750 RPM - so I'll probably never come near 15 since I can only run it at 540 .... hmmm ...... maybe hook it to the mid-PTO .... yeah that's the ticket ! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MMM · Jul 23, 2004

Try an adjustable flow divider. That's what I had to use to "calm down" my touchy hoe. Good luck on the splitter.

khd · Jul 23, 2004

At least since you already have the pump it isn't going to cost you anything to see how it works. You can always, relatively easily, convert to a stand alone (seperate pump and motor) down the road if you find performance isn't good enough and want to spend the extra money.

I too am tall and horizontal is my choice for splitting but since my brother-in-law has some dollars in mine and he is "robust" and doesn't want to lift, it will be horz/vert which I won't mind for big logs.

Have you called Prince Direct? Their web site shows a 4x30x1.74 for less than $150. I know your looking for a bigger cylinder but when I called looking for a cylinder I saw on the web site (no recent updates) the one I wanted was long gone and they pointed me right to another one with the same specs that wasn't listed. 888-307-3138 ask for Kevin in sales. He'll tell you what they have...maybe they have the 5x? that you are looking for.

As far as safety goes..... I think everyone needs to keep safety in mind when doing anything. But, forgoing doing something because you haven't been properly schooled would certainly make the world a boring place and we certainly wouldn't have the technology/industrialization that we have today without a little pioneering spirit. If someone does something insanely stupid and someone gets hurt then shame on them for not being a responsible adult.

Good luck on the cylinder hunt.

Kevin

MadReferee · Jul 23, 2004

( It's a Prince LS-3010-2. From looking at Prince's catalog and numbering scheme it appears that it was part of the LS-3xxx series log splitter control valves - but it is not listed in the current catalog - so it may be a discontinured item.)

Call Prince. They probably still have a spec sheet on it. I have an older Prince catalog but it only has the LS-3000, -3030, and -3040 series valves listed.

This is why I said to only order from real hydraulic suppliers. Northern is probably such a low volume seller that stuff sits in their warehouse for ages. Hence you are really getting obsolete or discontinued parts.

MRHURT · Jul 23, 2004

(As far as safety goes..... I think everyone needs to keep safety in mind when doing anything. But, forgoing doing something because you haven't been properly schooled would certainly make the world a boring place and we certainly wouldn't have the technology/industrialization that we have today without a little pioneering spirit. If someone does something insanely stupid and someone gets hurt then shame on them for not being a responsible adult.) 

Amen, if only more thought that way the world would be a better place. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SPIKER · Jul 23, 2004

RSWAYAN:

that would be great to see if they still have that trailer. I just bid on an old rhino hog on ebay down in circleville. southeast, oh but I won't go no farther than the price I had on it.use not worth it. I can get NEW up northeast of you a whas for 1100 I can get 5' hog, 6' rock rake and 12 PHD for the set.! there are CHALKERS http://www.chalkers.net/pages/704048/index.htm bit far of a drive from here but not as bad as circileville.

all I need now is a trailer ot haul em all on lol

Mark M