Yes, that's it, one of the most useful knots I know although I didn't know it by that name, which is why I couldn't find it apparently. One other advantage is that you don't have to pass the end through the first loop to make it fast a shown in the youtube video. You can just pull a loop of the loose end through and tie it around, so that if you are working with a very long rope you don't have to fool with pulling the whole length of it through the loop to tie it off. Thanks for posting those links!
Winches Logging winch on B7100
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Rod in Forfar
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If the little tractor will physically carry the winch, it will certainly have enough power to pull logs to the road with it. Then you'll need to handle them some other way, though. It won't skid them with the winch installed. Too heavy.
The advantage of the short tractor is its ability to turn sideways on a narrow road. Its disadvantage is its propensity to do the same thing without warning on slight slopes when overloaded at the back. Counterweights will be essential to handle the weight of the winch.
In a couple of sessions last fall I skidded my winter's firewood out to the road with the rig in the photos. This winch is an 8000 pound model, second from the largest the company markets. It's way too heavy for the tractor, but the blade digs itself in and the tractor doesn't slide around on a moderate pull. Common sense and a light touch are indicated, however.
Normally I use the winch on a Massey Ferguson 35 but the clean exhaust, vented forward, on the Bolens is much more pleasant to work around than the relatively dirty rear flow from the Perkins in the Massey.
The cable reaches 165 feet, and your tractor's pto and the gentle clutch on the winch should do the job for you if the little guy can move the winch into position.
The advantage of the short tractor is its ability to turn sideways on a narrow road. Its disadvantage is its propensity to do the same thing without warning on slight slopes when overloaded at the back. Counterweights will be essential to handle the weight of the winch.
In a couple of sessions last fall I skidded my winter's firewood out to the road with the rig in the photos. This winch is an 8000 pound model, second from the largest the company markets. It's way too heavy for the tractor, but the blade digs itself in and the tractor doesn't slide around on a moderate pull. Common sense and a light touch are indicated, however.
Normally I use the winch on a Massey Ferguson 35 but the clean exhaust, vented forward, on the Bolens is much more pleasant to work around than the relatively dirty rear flow from the Perkins in the Massey.
The cable reaches 165 feet, and your tractor's pto and the gentle clutch on the winch should do the job for you if the little guy can move the winch into position.
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Thanks for that post, Rod. What is the pto hp and the rated lift capacity of your Bolens? And which model Fransgard is that?
Skyline notions notwithstanding, I'm going to continue to keep an eye out for a great deal on a small logging winch, although they seem to be much more rare here in KY than farther north.
Skyline notions notwithstanding, I'm going to continue to keep an eye out for a great deal on a small logging winch, although they seem to be much more rare here in KY than farther north.
Bobm
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Horsepower is almost a non-issue using a bona fide Scandinavian logging winch. Your B7100 will have adequate HP for most situations. Conversely, you will likely NOT have adequate 3PH lift capacity...while you could lift something like a Farmi 351, I don't believe the B7100 would lift that winch when you had a log fully skidded in, and were ready to lift the winch + log, and proceed "down the road". Your front wheels would be heaven bound. Lots of folks use logging winches with smaller tractors...and then skid (with winch lifted and log attached) by using left or right rear brake to "steer"...not safe though!
The tractor horsepower ratings given for most Scandinavian winches is largely based upon the weight of a tractor - tractor weight increases relative to the size of the tractor. A front loader is a MUST when using any skidding winch. Common sense dictates that one must counteract the combined weight of the lifted winch + log on the rear with equivalent front end weight of the tractor.
Of course, you stated that actual skidding was not a primary concern...only getting the log to the tractor is the issue. If that truly is the primary objective, something similar to the Farmi 290 or 351 would be a very nice tool. If the stock 165' feet of cable was not sufficient, you could always use smaller diameter cable and accordingly have significantly longer cable length capacity. I have seen 351's using over 400' of smaller diameter cable....instant low lead system! Do be aware that if you do load up the drum with cable, and do not usually use that much cable, that the effective diameter of the cable drum increases, and accordingly decreases the line pull. The manufacturer stated line pull on a drum winch is based upon just a few wraps of cable on the drum...not a drum fully loaded with cable. It is for this reason that many loggers use lesser cable lengths - largely based upon their usual log to tractor or skidder pull distance.
Despite what others have stated in this thread...the winch will not impart significant forces onto your relatively small tractor...when the winch is in actual use, it is in a fully lowered position, and the winch's butt plate will contact the soil. The tractor's 3PH is, in essence, just holding the winch in a vertical position. By virtue of the relatively high pull point on most winches, the downward force on the winch will anchor the winch...you can "bury" a winch in this manner, thus further lessening the importance of the weight of the tractor.
Also, others have stated that "things happen quickly" with a winch. Perhaps they were referring to a positive engagement (geared) winch...but certainly not with a better Scandinavian winch using an internal clutch to transmit PTO power. If things are happening too quickly, common sense was not in use. Keep your PTO RPM's low...you don't need them for HP! If you need more power, then...and only then... increase your engine RPMs. Most long time users of 3PH winches use them at a near idle. If something is happening (log hung up on stump, log hung up on bank, tractor front end heaven bound), just lessen your pull on the engagement rope...things will go back to normal...and in a predictable manner.
The reality is that one can meter the line pull of a Scandinavian winch with suprising accuracy. Want to move that log one inch...no problem...just pull lightly on the winch rope and slip the winch clutch. Don't worry about frying the winch clutch in doing this either...I have NEVER seen a winch clutch fry with prudent long term use. The large backing plate on the winch clutch acts as an effective heat sink.
Hope this helps out. I've been using 3PH logging winches and arches for over 30 years. I suggest a larger tractor with FEL if you are going to actually skid logs. Above all, BE CAREFUL.
The tractor horsepower ratings given for most Scandinavian winches is largely based upon the weight of a tractor - tractor weight increases relative to the size of the tractor. A front loader is a MUST when using any skidding winch. Common sense dictates that one must counteract the combined weight of the lifted winch + log on the rear with equivalent front end weight of the tractor.
Of course, you stated that actual skidding was not a primary concern...only getting the log to the tractor is the issue. If that truly is the primary objective, something similar to the Farmi 290 or 351 would be a very nice tool. If the stock 165' feet of cable was not sufficient, you could always use smaller diameter cable and accordingly have significantly longer cable length capacity. I have seen 351's using over 400' of smaller diameter cable....instant low lead system! Do be aware that if you do load up the drum with cable, and do not usually use that much cable, that the effective diameter of the cable drum increases, and accordingly decreases the line pull. The manufacturer stated line pull on a drum winch is based upon just a few wraps of cable on the drum...not a drum fully loaded with cable. It is for this reason that many loggers use lesser cable lengths - largely based upon their usual log to tractor or skidder pull distance.
Despite what others have stated in this thread...the winch will not impart significant forces onto your relatively small tractor...when the winch is in actual use, it is in a fully lowered position, and the winch's butt plate will contact the soil. The tractor's 3PH is, in essence, just holding the winch in a vertical position. By virtue of the relatively high pull point on most winches, the downward force on the winch will anchor the winch...you can "bury" a winch in this manner, thus further lessening the importance of the weight of the tractor.
Also, others have stated that "things happen quickly" with a winch. Perhaps they were referring to a positive engagement (geared) winch...but certainly not with a better Scandinavian winch using an internal clutch to transmit PTO power. If things are happening too quickly, common sense was not in use. Keep your PTO RPM's low...you don't need them for HP! If you need more power, then...and only then... increase your engine RPMs. Most long time users of 3PH winches use them at a near idle. If something is happening (log hung up on stump, log hung up on bank, tractor front end heaven bound), just lessen your pull on the engagement rope...things will go back to normal...and in a predictable manner.
The reality is that one can meter the line pull of a Scandinavian winch with suprising accuracy. Want to move that log one inch...no problem...just pull lightly on the winch rope and slip the winch clutch. Don't worry about frying the winch clutch in doing this either...I have NEVER seen a winch clutch fry with prudent long term use. The large backing plate on the winch clutch acts as an effective heat sink.
Hope this helps out. I've been using 3PH logging winches and arches for over 30 years. I suggest a larger tractor with FEL if you are going to actually skid logs. Above all, BE CAREFUL.
Thanks for this very helpful information. I was surprised to see that you are in Indiana. I am in Kentucky and these winches seem very scarce around here, much more common in the northeast. Given my limited use, it doesn't make much sense to buy a new one and I don't know if I'll ever see a small one around here used. But who knows. There is an equipment auction over in London Ky on Saturday...
Bobm
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I'll bet you find a small used winch sooner or later. There are actually quite a few 3PH winches in use in the greater Ohio valley. Just within a few miles of my place, I know of at least a dozen. I suggest haunting ebay, craig's list, etc. I have a friend who may be selling his 7000 lb Igland winch - if he finally decides to part with it I'll contact you via PM.
btw, the B7100 is a nice machine...deceptively powerful for its size. I had one and loved it...stepped up to a B7200 which I still have. Three cylinders make good rotational sense.
I have used a Farmi JL-410 on my B7200 just for odd pulls. No problems...but wouldn't want to (nay, couldn't) pull anything through the woods with it. Just the weight of the JL-410 was about all the B7200 could handle!
Up until about 1980, Farmi made some beautiful small winches without steel shells...in other words, the clutch, drum and other innards were fully exposed. Much lighter in overall weight. I still see them in Europe and Scandinavia. They were bulletproof, and those too are still around in our neck of the woods. One of those would make for a nice "yarder" winch for your 7100. I'll keep my ear to the ground for you.
btw, the B7100 is a nice machine...deceptively powerful for its size. I had one and loved it...stepped up to a B7200 which I still have. Three cylinders make good rotational sense.
I have used a Farmi JL-410 on my B7200 just for odd pulls. No problems...but wouldn't want to (nay, couldn't) pull anything through the woods with it. Just the weight of the JL-410 was about all the B7200 could handle!
Up until about 1980, Farmi made some beautiful small winches without steel shells...in other words, the clutch, drum and other innards were fully exposed. Much lighter in overall weight. I still see them in Europe and Scandinavia. They were bulletproof, and those too are still around in our neck of the woods. One of those would make for a nice "yarder" winch for your 7100. I'll keep my ear to the ground for you.
dstig1
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I'll disagree at least a bit, Bob. The Old Farmi winch I have will jerk the tractor (L3130) around like nothing ... if allowed to. Yes you can throttle them pretty well with the rope, and I do that myself, but there is a point that you may be missing after having so much time with these winches: They are not "normal" winches. Most people who think of a winch think of the slow-as-grass-growing type that use gearing to get leverage. Logging winches are orders of magnitude faster than those as they have access to significant PTO horsepressure (neigh!). Newbs will not realize this. For winches, these things fly!
The one I have is much like what you describe - no blade or cage. It's pretty open and "not OSHA happy" by modern standards. They are very hard to find used. I got mine from a friend that essentially gave it to me (OK he got 30 cords of free firewood...) but it took some repair to get it back in shape as it had been a it mangled over the years.
Man that thing needs some paint...
The one I have is much like what you describe - no blade or cage. It's pretty open and "not OSHA happy" by modern standards. They are very hard to find used. I got mine from a friend that essentially gave it to me (OK he got 30 cords of free firewood...) but it took some repair to get it back in shape as it had been a it mangled over the years.
Man that thing needs some paint...
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Jeff Lary
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I agree with the above post i have a Farmi JL 250 winch it is on my Kubota L2950 I have 100 plus acers and love the winch we always only had an Allis Chalmers model B and the Winch is great. Now that being said i can not see you lugging my winch around much less using it.This is not a large winch but it would eaisly pull my tractor around like a toy if you dont watch out.The old allis is around 24 hp i think and is 4 times the size of your tractor if it had a 3 point hitch it still would not work as you need locking brakes and really should have a loader bucket to add some down pressure to keep it in position.The Kubota works fine but you still need to take care. He was right when he said these winchs are fast when compared with the run of the mill elec or hydro kind .With my bota at 1800 rpms the log, tree length 1 foot on the butt 50' long will move at a pace that you would need to jog or at the least walk very fast to keep up with. If i were you i would look for some block and tackel or snatch block and line .That way you would be able to control the pull by your foward movement much safer for you i would think, or just bite the bullet and buy a tractor that is made to do this sort of thing....My lawn mower is 8 hp.
Well, I went to the auction today and sure enough there was a Fransgard V4000 there. Too big for me, so I didn't even stay around to bid on it but I'll call the auctioneer next week to ask what it went for just out of curiosity.
. I have a which on the back of my tract run with a princes pump on idle with brakes locked it will pull my tractor back word it all so runs my log splitter on idle and it is faster than I am. I got to a knot and reved my tractor to splitting thru a knot and broke my 4 way. Go to Ram splitter and talk to Doug and he will sell you the pump stuff to get you going. They basic lee put me in the fire wood business and I got a 5000 bundle contract today. I am happy as can be
