Looking for help with an 855

[jaybrad]

My dad has an older 855 with a little over 1,000 hours on it. Yesterday, while helping him do some yard work, I noticed that it kicks out a black cloud at startup and continues to smoke quite a bit while running; more throtte, more smoke. It also seemed that compared to my little GC2310, the 855 did not have nearly as much power at a comparable RPM.

When I asked him about the smoke, he said it's been like that for quite a while, but since it still starts right up and works OK, the expense of having it serviced by the dealer has caused him to do nothing to identify the problem.

I took off the air filter, which had a lot of dirt in it and thought that maybe a reasonable starting point would be to give it a routine servicing - and then from searching around on TBN, I am also wondering if it also needs a new injector (or 3)?

I don't expect the basic maintenance to change the smoke issue, but I'm pretty sure it's overdue.

The injector thing is where I'm less certain - and even if I'm going in the right direction? Is there a way for a backyard mechanic to identify and change a faulty injector? Are those things expensive - and does this sound like a reasonable path to follow?

Thanks very much,
Jay

 

[prosperity]

Usually black smoke indicates a lack of air - the fuel to air ratio is wrong.

I think you were on the right track with looking at the air filter. If the engine runs without missing/shuddering, I don't think it would be an injector problem. If you are having lack of power, it could be a timing issue.

I would first put in a new set of air filters, and see if that corrects the problem before digging into anything further.

 

[jaybrad]

Usually black smoke indicates a lack of air - the fuel to air ratio is wrong. <snip>

I would first put in a new set of air filters, and see if that corrects the problem before digging into anything further.

Filters? As in plural? I know about the one that sits at the rear of the engine (with the fins on the bottom), but is there another one somewhere?

Is there a good online source for filters (oil, air, fuel, hydraulic) - and a source where I can find the service specs?

Thanks very much,
Jay

 

[Cocre]

Filters? As in plural? I know about the one that sits at the rear of the engine (with the fins on the bottom), but is there another one somewhere?

Is there a good online source for filters (oil, air, fuel, hydraulic) - and a source where I can find the service specs?

Thanks very much,
Jay

According to jdparts.com there is an inner and outer filter on the 855. P/N AM108184 and AM108185. ~$35 each

 

[joecdeere]

855 came as both a single element air filter assy, and as a dual filter ( 1 inner safety filter & 1 outer filter) most rear mounted ones were only a single element
p/n AM102746

 

[dfkrug]

I took off the air filter, which had a lot of dirt in it....

On the inside or outside of the filter, Jay? On the inside means you
are getting dirt into the engine. Unless you have the dual filter system
mentioned and the dirt has not made it past the innner filter.

Black smoke while running (not at startup and not under sudden heavy
load) can also mean your cylinders are worn and your compression is
down, resulting in incomplete fuel burning. Do you have a lot of
blow-by gas coming out of the crankcase vent?

 

[jaybrad]

On the inside or outside of the filter, Jay? On the inside means you
are getting dirt into the engine. Unless you have the dual filter system
mentioned and the dirt has not made it past the innner filter.

Black smoke while running (not at startup and not under sudden heavy
load) can also mean your cylinders are worn and your compression is
down, resulting in incomplete fuel burning. Do you have a lot of
blow-by gas coming out of the crankcase vent?

The dirt was on the outside, which is good.

The smoke seemed rather constant. There is a burst at startup, then it continues at all RPMs. I did not notice a pattern to when it was worse.

I didn't look for (or at) the crankcase vent. Whereabouts is that located (other than on the crankcase )?

Thanks,
Jay

 

[dfkrug]

I didn't look for (or at) the crankcase vent. Whereabouts is that located (other than on the crankcase )?

The vent hose connects to the breather cap on top of the valve cover.
You may have to disconnect the hose. I no longer have my 955
service manual, unfortunately, as I gave it to the guy who bought
my last 955.

 

[jd110]

I agree with the air filter(s) change. You might also check the hydraulic system. Sometimes if a scv lever sticks or rockshaft linkage gets out of adjustment, it wil cause the engine to run under load making it smoke and lack power. Do the hydraulics heat up quickly?

 

[jaybrad]

Sometimes if a scv lever sticks or rockshaft linkage gets out of adjustment, it wil cause the engine to run under load making it smoke and lack power. Do the hydraulics heat up quickly?

(still willing to show how much I have to learn) by heating up do you mean literally? Would I need to physically feel the lines to know?

I had a 755 about a decade ago, but my recent tractor experience has been with my M-F 2310, which certainly acts differently (and better) than this 855. So I don't really have a good point of reference for how the hydraulics are supposed to work on this machine.

I really appreciate these tips and will make a note of them for my to do list next weekend.

In the meantime, I think I'll be picking up a few filters, some engine oil, and some hydraulic fluid - since I don't think this machine has been serviced in a rather long time - and then give it a good once over. And I'll try not to make it worse in the process.

Thanks for any and all suggestions.

Jay

 

[jaybrad]

Update: Looks like the engine has given up the ghost. Now the dilemma is whether to rebuild/replace this engine, or look for a new(er) tractor?

Waiting for an estimate from the dealer. Any idea what it costs to put a new engine in this old tractor?

Thanks.

 

[jd110]

What is the problem with the engine? Has it gotten worse since your last post? Has compression and injectors been tested? I assume the filters made no difference. If you really do need engine work, it can be very expensive. Unfortunately, complete engines are not available anymore. Short blocks are available for somewhere around $3500.00. You still would need the cylinder head reconditioned at a machine shop and that could cost several hundred more. If your cylinder block and crankshaft are still good, It would probably be cheaper to bore the block and install oversized pistons. Although with today's labor prices you probably wouldn't save much. Since al this is so expensive, be sure the engine is shot before you invest in overhaul.

 

[jaybrad]

I'm a little sketchy on the details, since the tractor belongs to my dad who is my source for details.

The blow-by continued to get worse to the point where he said it was injecting raw fuel into the oil and it sounds to me like now the engine won't run at all.

He was talking about boring the cylinders and putting in oversize pistons, but it sounded like it would take a few days for the dealer to get the time to pull together an estimate.

If he's looking at $5,000 or so to rebuilt this engine, he might do well to see what's out there for a used machine. He has an FEL and MMM for this unit, but also a few 3PH attachements that he could use on another tractor.

Tough call. He has a good sized piece of property and really needs a tractor, but at the same time he's in his 80s and doesn't need it to do as much as in years passed.

 

[dfkrug]

Waiting for an estimate from the dealer. Any idea what it costs to put a new engine in this old tractor?

When I rebuilt my last 955 several years ago, the costs broke down thus:

O/S pistons/rings, $450
head gasket, $65
valve stem seals, $15
boring service/cleaning, $120
my labor, 0

I also bought new engine mounts, since they were broken. It is hard to
find a shop that will do a whole engine teardown/rebuild, and the difference
between bringing in the engine separately, and bringing in the whole tractor
will be huge. This engine is very easy to remove since there is no clutch,
and it sits on top of a full frame.

Even 5 y ago, you could not buy this engine from JD. I did find a dealer who
had a long block in his warehouse, but he wanted $5400 for it.

Don't be stunned if labor to do all this work runs into the thousands.

Good luck.

 

[mfreund]

From your initial description, I would look at a stuck open injector. The bad thing is if it has been run for years like that, washing down the cylinder walls, it could have lead to the rest of the problems (poor compression and blow-by) . If it truly needs a engine I would buy another 855 and use the current one for the attachments and parts.

 

[jaybrad]

I only noticed the smoke a couple months ago, but am thinking that it has been like this for years. We'll see what the dealer says this week, but looking for a used machine makes a lot of sense to me.