Tractor Sizing Looking for HP Recommendation

[jeff9366]

I'm more likely to to to the L4060 than to jump to the L4701.

The L4060 along with other 'Grand L' models will not fit under an 84" garage header. The 'Grand L' ground level fueling is great but fuel storage under the tractor raises the overall height of the tractor and ROPS. I had a very skilled welder cut about 5" of the bottom of the ROPS of my 2013 L3560 in order for it to enter my garage with the ROPS folded.

The 'old style' L4701 will enter a garage with standard 84" header, as will an MX with 'old style' climb-up-to-fuel-from-above.

Many with five acres will not want to build dedicated tractor storage.


WHAT IS YOUR ALTITUDE?

 

[big bubba]

personally, i'd be choosing the appropriate tractor for the tasks ahead rather than buying a model to conveniently fit in a structure.
all kinds of options can follow for storage

 

[dodge man]

Maybe it’s just me but it seems like you are looking at an awfully big tractor for 5 acres. Most people if they make a mistake is buying to small but it can go the other way and you can buy to big.

 

[youne]

Thanks Jeff and Bubba. I have a really well established range now that I can target based on price and availability. A 2020 2038R with with a bunch of implements has popped up at a dealer over the weekend too. At the lower end of the size range but still seems a capable unit. The price seems too good to be true so I'm going to call them when they open and see what is up.

 

[RalphVa]

Hey all! First time poster here. We are moving to an acreage in just over a month and I'm hoping you can help with a horsepower recommendation.

Primary tasks:
- Mowing (if I can get away with a small enough tractor I would do MMM. If not, I would do a finish mower and get a separate ZTR).
- Snowblower and/or Blade
- Potentially running auger for post hole digging off PTO
- Tilling for breaking hard ground - clay/grass to be able to till it and then plant trees
- Will also include a loader

Total lot size is 5 acres and we would be planting trees around almost the entire perimeter. The ground is hard, dry clay and I want a unit that I can use for the ongoing yard maintenance, but that isn't going to strain if I ask it to break ground. Land is fairly flat, any hills are subtle.

Let me know if you need any more info to help answer, thank you!

D

Only need 18 hp for those tasks. All I need to bush hogging with 4 ft. Prolly same for 4 ft tiller.

Loader work only needs maybe 15 hp unless you're trying to dig some dirt with it. Then 25 or more. Loaders aren't good for digging in hard dirt.

For planting trees, you'd be better off soaking that clay first and digging by hand. Otherwise, need a back hoe.

Ralph

 

[jjp8182]

Since I'm back home with a full size keyboard I'm going to jump in this thread too ...and say that the time you have available to do these tasks is the driver for the size & hp of the of the tractor (hp and size can be very different things).

For example mowing, how much of the acreage are you going to keep mowed as a lawn/yard? How often will you be mowing it and how much time do you have to mow it? This would drive the size of the mower you'll want/need which in turn will drive the PTO hp. I wouldn't recommend going below 5hp per foot of mower width, and I wouldn't count on being able to go faster than 3-5mph unless you plan on making your yard golf course smooth and keeping it that way. BTW you'll also want to compare where the prices of MMM vs. 3pt finish mowers vs. standalone mower end up as there can be some very distinctive price differences at different sizes. For example a quality 72 inch 3pt finish mower can be much less expensive than a similarly sized MMM or independent mower. There can be a bit more of a learning curve with a 3pt mower, but having had MMM and zero-turns I'd say it also has it's own distinct advantages as well ..... higher lift heights and not being between the wheels being a couple.

Likewise if you look around you'll probably be able to find some recommendations on hp per foot of working with for snowblowers, and you'll probably want to go with one that covers the width of the tractor -- not necessarily a requirement to cover the tractor width, but .....can make things a bit easier. Depending on the amount and type (powder vs slush) of snow you get snow pushers or blades may be a preferable alternative. Large amounts of wet snow will require more hp to move at the same width & speed as a dryer/powdery snow. That may not be as much of an issue with newer tractors, but with older ones you may run into an issue of not having enough hp at the PTO to make a snowblower worthwhile.

Unless your property is free of rocks and roots I wouldn't recommend a PTO auger (unless of course you're a glutton for punishment). Been there done that and 20 years later still remember how much of a nuisance it was to free a PTO auger after it'd caught on an underground obstruction and had to be freed by hand. Suggest either renting a skid steer with a hydraulic auger or getting a tractor that can run one on the loader (the down pressure and ability to reverse the auger can be good things - especially in challenging soil conditions).

Tilling would also fall into the same thought process as mowing - though the hp per foot of width will be different (more tends to be better). Of course when it comes to working the ground the method chosen can change the characteristics of the tractor you'll want .... PTO driven implements will drive more HP, and draft implements like plows, disk harrows, etc will want more effective draft hp (which is usually limited by the weight of the tractor).

Things to consider for the loader are what heights will you need to reach and at what distances? ....and what sort of unbreakable loads will you need to lift? For example my criteria was based off of 55 gallon drums of water (which are roughly 400-500lbs each when full) ...and don't forget the weight of the attachment/implement as the loader will still need to lift that weight too.

That leads to considering any other hard limits as far as height and width of the tractor itself along with if any tasks may call for specific options on the tractor. There's the obvious 3rd function on the loader for using grapples, but rear implements with hydraulics can also make life easier (top & tilt kits, hydraulically angled rear blades or snowblower chutes)... and of course there's always the cab vs open station consideration (which for most goes cab as soon as snow removal or extreme become a consideration).

All of those things are what should be balanced against the budget you have -- where I'd suggest looking at the budget from not only total cost but monthly costs as well (since that's usually how many payments are made).

The thing to remember when looking at tractors is the tractor is a carrier and power source and it's the implements (front and rear) that are doing the work. So look at the implements you may eventually want/need to use and how quickly you'll want/need to complete the tasks you'll be using them for and let that drive your tractor sizing.....

Apologies for the length of this, just wanted to cover the different tasks mentioned and tweak the perspective of how to look at tractor sizing/buying process ....as I'd wager most early trade-ins are based upon individuals buying a tractor based on HP rather than sizing it for the tasks the buyer wanted to do.....

 

[youne]

Hi Jeff, the good news is the L4060 with the ROPs folded is 81" according to the dealer. A bit of management in and out of the garage but I *think* that would still fit.

 

[youne]

Alright all! After some continued thought, sizing up, down, multiple brands and in-between, I think I am down to 2 tractors. I really, REALLY was pining after one of the new 1835/1840M MF units, started looking at Grand Ls and even a fly by on the MX but the size was too much and the increased cost didn't make sense. But it was a fun dream while lasted.

I am between the LX3310 and the John Deere 2038R. I have LX3310 pricing from one dealer (waiting from a second) and am just waiting on 2038R pricing from someone that works at the JD shop in my home town. About 2 hours away but nice to have the personal connection.

I wish Kubota made a larger HP in the LX series. I like some of the extra bells and whistles, placement of the loader arm, etc vs going up to the L series. For the JD I like the deck and command cut. I've seen a lot of mixed reviews but I'm in the IT Industry so if I can't trust technology who can.

Once the pricing comes in I will be making a final decision. I kind of had JD in 3rd place originally behind MF and Kubota for unknown personal bias, but the more I looked at all kinds of sizes, implements, read reviews, watched videos, etc it seems like it is the intersection of everything I am needing...but price may play a role.

It's funny in this process I learned that when looking at these tractors it really is like rock paper scissors - each mfr really has something I like, but that will be trumped by something by another mfr. It is incredibly, incredibly difficult to truly compare apples to apples (by design I'm sure), but it has been an absolute blast. Just want you to know I appreciate all of your support, and while I only came across the forum when I was searching for advice, I've starting creeping on a lot of the threads here. Great community.

Anyway thanks again, I will let you all know what I decide!

 

[Dave M7040]

Whatever brand and model you buy, negotiate the inclusion of electronic versions of shop manuals in the deal.

JD has the best manuals by far. If you get a loader make certain the loader installation and workshop manuals are included.

The loader installation manual shows you how the loader is tied into the tractor hydraulics. Trying to figure that out from the tractor and loader WSM is very difficult.

The loader installation manual likely includes instructions for installing a third function valve for things like a grapple

Dave M7040

 

[dodge man]

Both would be good choices.

 

[youne]

Update - wow, home town Deere guy came throw with a smoking deal on a brand new 2038R that makes it negligible to jump over the LX3310. It's near impossible to not go JD now with the extra weight and HP at that price. We are chatting again tomorrow to hash out finer details (R3 tires, adding a rear blade) but my search may be coming to an end! ETA on the unit is beginning of May so I will try to get it ordered ASAP as well as I'm sure they're about to get a whole lot busier.

 

[jeff9366]

Hi Jeff, the good news is the L4060 with the ROPs folded is 81" according to the dealer. A bit of management in and out of the garage but I *think* that would still fit.

I am a little skeptical of this, however it is only logical that Kubota would have shortened the ROPS to <84" since 2013 when the /60 series came out. Mine is one of the first /60 series delivered.

Still, I suggest you make a focused post with folded L4060 ROPS height as the question before placing an order.

When I ordered my L3560 in later 2012 Kubota had not revised the ROPS spec on their web site relative to preceding /40 series so the dealer and I both had a surprise when my tractor was delivered. My dealer was grateful when I did not make a big stink. The welder's work was not that much money relative to the purchase price. Kubota dealer kindly transported tractor to and from welder at no charge. I do not have a truck nor trailer.

 

[jeff9366]

Home town Deere guy came throw with a smoking deal on a brand new 2038R

A suitable tractor for five acres. It will have Tier IV pollution controls. Ample horsepower. Great engine.
Odd that tractor width is not shown in specs.
I love the new tractor smell.


John Deere 2038R

2017 - 2R Series
Compact Utility tractor
Series back: John Deere 2032R

Manufacturer: John Deere
Factory: Augusta, Georgia, USA
Original price (USD)
$23,958 (2017 )

John Deere 2038R Engine:
Yanmar 3TNV88C-NJT
turbocharged
3-cylinder
liquid-cooled
95.8 ci [1.6 L]
John Deere 2038R Power:
Engine (gross): 37.3 hp [27.8 kW]
PTO (claimed): 30.4 hp [22.7 kW]

Capacity:
Fuel: 8.5 gal [32.2 L]

3-Point Hitch:
Rear Type: I
Control: position control
Rear lift (at 24"/610mm): 1356 lbs [615 kg]

Power Take-off (PTO):
Rear PTO: independent
Rear RPM: 540 (1.375)
Mid RPM: 2000

Dimensions & Tires:
Wheelbase: 67.9 inches [172 cm]
Weight: 2436 lbs [1104 kg]
Front tire: 7.00-12
Rear tire: 12.4-16

John Deere 2038R attachments:
mowing deck

front-end loader
Loader type: John Deere 220R
Height (to pin): 85 inches [215 cm]
Clearance, dumped bucket: 66 inches [167 cm]
Dump reach: 30 inches [76 cm]
Dump angle: 36
Clearance, level bucket: 79 inches [200 cm]
Reach at ground: 51 inches [129 cm]
Breakout force (at pin): 1949 lbs [884 kg]
Breakout force (at 500mm): 1360 lbs [616 kg]
Breakout force (bucket): 2138 lbs [969 kg]
Lift to full height (at pin): 1120 lbs [508 kg]
Lift to full height (at 500mm): 803 lbs [364 kg]
Lift to 1.5m (at pin): 1269 lbs [575 kg]
Lift to 1.5m (at 500mm): 979 lbs [444 kg]
Bucket width: 49 inches [124 cm]
53 inches [134 cm]
57 inches [144 cm]

backhoe

Mechanical:
Final drives: spur gear
Differential lock: mechanical rear
Steering: power
Brakes: wet disc
Cab: Two-post foldable ROPS.

Hydraulics:
Type: open center
Pressure: 2500 psi [172.4 bar]
Valves: 0 to 3
Pump flow: 5.3 gpm [20.1 lpm]
Total flow: 9.3 gpm [35.2 lpm]
Steering flow: 4 gpm [15.1 lpm]

Electrical:
Ground: negative
Charging system: alternator
Charging amps: 85
Charging volts: 12

Page information:
Last update: August 23, 2018
Copyright: Copyright 2018 TractorData LLC
Contact: Peter@TractorData.com

 

[youne]

I doubt it's changed much, according to this article it is 57.9". (though they mistakenly say 67.9)


217 John Deere 238R Review | Tractor News.

 

[dodge man]

The JD 2038r is a solid tractor, pretty stout loader and 3 point for its size.

 

[rScotty]

The 2038R does get a lot of good press in the "JD Owners" section of TBN. Nice tractors - and even nicer with the Yanmar engine and who knows what else makes a good combol. Yanmar is top quality mechanicals and JD tops for dealership backing. JD shop manuals and FOS booklets are legendary.

I'd probably be tempted to go that way myself - and especially if the competing Kubota didn't have HST+.

Youne, you've got the same problem every first time buyer faces - how to sort through the advertising to find out the important parts. Don't fret; there's no way to know & all will do the job. Next time you will know more about what fits you and your land.

But some things are universal: More power and weight are always good; so is 3pt lift capacity. More ground clearance is always good. Adjustable rear tire width is always good. And the more gears & ranges available the better.
Many have noted that no matter what tractor people buy, their second tractor is almost always a size larger. Even knowing that, we all start off too small. I did, too. And small will still work. It just takes longer.

You can take that too far. When I first started, my wife said she couldn't see me on our tractor because the snow drifts were higher than my hat. Now when I see her looking out the window of the house I just open my cab window & wave.... and maybe turn up the heater. But I do miss our little tractor.

My own opinion is that you are better off if your FIRST tractor is one of the 3 or 4 most popular brands - but that is opinion; not fact.
It still leaves you plenty to choose from.
Good Luck,
rScotty

 

[john reeder]

We only have three acres and I have a bx2380 and a zero turn for mowing and am glad I do. The tires on the tractor are the middle grade and I got them so as to avoid tearing up the turf in the yard, but they do it anyway. If I were to be mowing with the little bx instead of the zero turn it would take me twice as long and the yard would always be torn up. Were I in your shoes with five acres I would get the size tractor next up from the bx, I think that would be the b size, and a zero turn for mowing. My little bx will do anything a larger tractor will do but I have to take smaller bites and of course it takes me longer to get it done.

 

[jjp8182]

The real thing to remember is there really is no 100% solutions (at least not that I've seen), and the unique situations each owner has can drive what's needed/wanted.

I went with an L3560 for my property that's just under 3-ish acres and after 4 years it's rare that I'm finding myself wanting either a bigger or smaller machine - though there I times I'd like to have both a smaller and larger machine as there are a few spots where a machine under 4ft wide would be handy, and there are some things that would make a much higher loader lift capacity highly desirable (e.g. moving IBC totes filled with captured rain water, moving some of the tree stumps that I dug out with a rented mini-excavator)....

So I think no matter what you go with you'll eventually find that there are always a few things you'd like to be different. So even if a tractor feels too big at first give it a bit of time as my L3560 felt a bit big when I first got it on my property and then as I got used to it, it rapidly started shrinking .... to the point it now feels almost "small" though it's still big enough to do >90% of what I need to do in the time I have to do it.

Which is more than good enough for the foreseeable future, and if that changes well then it's just a tractor and getting a tractor isn't like marrying a spouse or making life or death decisions. So enjoy your purchase and learn with it. ....and :tractor: on. :thumbsup: