low hp hydro - is it worth it?

[GaryS]

We've just finished building the house, I need a lawn tractor and I'm really budget constrained. So, I think I've decided to get a low cost lawn tractor. I'm looking at the 20hp Craftsman tractors which I can get gear or hydro. I know that on a diesel tractor, you loose HP to the hydro and I imagine that's the case here too. I don't mind gear&shifting especially if it means longer life and more hp - but are there gotchas that I'm not aware of? Can you shift while the cutting deck is engaged?

 

[dieselsmoke1]

My opinion, gear or hydro depends somewhat on the use. I have a DYT4000 with a kohler Command 25 and a Hydro Gear sealed unit. The tranny always has the torque to spin the tires when engine rpm's are half throttle or better. However a small hydro may not be the best choice for severe use, ie.steep grades, pulling slingers, trailer sprayers and aeroators. I basically killed my tranny in 4 years.

Now the rest of the story, I would buy the exact same piece again. The ability to seamlessly change speed as conditions require for the last 4 years and the amount of time I think it has saved is worth the new $400 tranny I just put in it.

There is no directional interlock on the one I have. Two pedal setup, push and go.

Do not know if i answered your question, just a few observations to consider.

 

[Bird]

I think if you worry about a loss of hp with a hydro on a riding mower, you're wasting your time worrying. Obviously there are people who still prefer the gear models or they wouldn't still be selling them, but for me, personally, there's no way I'd even consider a gear model riding mower. Tractors for farm use are another matter.

 

[Mith]

20HP is so rediculously overpowered dont worry about the power wasted by the hydro.

If you are losing 2HP to the hydro on a 12HP tractor, its something to think about. If you are lsing 2HP on a 20HP (that only needs 14-16 to move the deck) then dont lose sleep.

Other than that what Dieselsmoke and Bird said, get whatever suits you the best. If you are just mowing or doing light work, get hydro. If you want to do work (towing, groudn engaging) get gear.

Bird, in the Westwood lineup (British made tractor mower, popular around here) only the smallest (12HP 36") tractor has the option of gear and hydro, all the others are hydro only. Very few, if any, tractors come with gear now here. I'm still not convinced about hydro, I like the variable speed, but it just hasnt proved itself to be string enough for me, and I dont like the fact that the wheels arent connected directly to the drive. I would love to have a hydro for a week to try it out, I dont think it would last the week here, but I would love to be proved wrong, so I can buy one!

 

[Bird]

Mith, I think you're wrong, but can't prove it.

 

[Mith]

Bird, if you put up half the money, thinking would be enough. Bit proving it is the minimum for me to buy all out

 

[MT372HERE]

Ive had good luck with most of my Hydrostatic and Gear mowers.

Hydrostatic

2001 JD 425- Ran a Front loader, mowed 3 acres- Sold with 350 hours, no issues
1996 JD 445- Ran front loader for 300 hours, mowed 3 acres- Sold with 1400 hours, no issues
1993 Wheel Horse 416-H- 723 hours on it, Used it this season to plow 1/3 acre, not a problem
1988 JD 316- 1300 hours on it, punished its whole life before I got it, hydro is flawless

GEAR

1962 WheelHorse 702- 3spd+Rev. Pulls like he11, lifts the front tire 2 feet off the ground, quiet.
1988 WheeHorse 310-8 8speed- 4 gears High 4 Gears Low- after about 1000 hours, it has a faint whine in 3rd High...but its still precise and strong. So strong I dumped almost 300 in rebuilding the Orginal Kohler
198X- Cub Cadet 1200. 3spd+ Reverse- No problmes except for driveshaft failure, but that was user error.

The hydros are nice, nifty, but you dont get the "feel" like you do with a gearbox.

The gears are nice trannys, strong, but you only have 3 or 6 options at a give engine speed.

We had a Craftsman Hydro for a couple of year around 1996 or so. It lasted 2 years before it started to howl loudly and lose power. On the flip side, Ive seen more than a handful of the inexpensive gear drives fail in more than one way.


To each their own I guess.

 

[chrisjbell]

I've been running a hydro on my JD lawn tractor. It is seven years old and going strong. I thrash it, too. I use it to pull a trailer that I've (over) loaded down with wood, dirt, rocks. I always run out of traction before running out of power, and the thing only has a 16hp engine.

Whenever I have to use a gear drive lawn mower I hate it. You either get a jerky start or you're stuck going too slow once you get going. I usually wind up starting off in a lower gear and then jam the thing into a higher gear, which makes me cringe at the noise...

 

[MT372HERE]

I've been running a hydro on my JD lawn tractor. It is seven years old and going strong. I thrash it, too. I use it to pull a trailer that I've (over) loaded down with wood, dirt, rocks. I always run out of traction before running out of power, and the thing only has a 16hp engine.

Whenever I have to use a gear drive lawn mower I hate it. You either get a jerky start or you're stuck going too slow once you get going. I usually wind up starting off in a lower gear and then jam the thing into a higher gear, which makes me cringe at the noise...

Ive gotten pretty good at speed shifting my 8 speed. It is an H patters like a car. Trickiest shift is 1st to 2nd.

What is fun is doing it with a load, up an incline, without losing momentum...> haha.

Ive seen some pretty nasty failure from people shifting on the go on a non shift on the go..teeth stripped, shafts twisted, cases broken...

What model JD you got?
Tommy-

 

[Fordlords]

Just about everything has gone the way of hydro drive now, but I preferred the good gear drives. JD 214 had a variator lever for its gear drive that (when it worked, it was one of the tractor's weak points) gave a little speed variation in each of the gears.

The hydros are easier to use with no clutching, but they will speed up and slow down a bit on inclines and declines where the gear drives would stay a steady speed. I think I mowed with the 214 in 3rd, and it would stay the same forward speed and needed no input to mow long straightaways even with hills. In other words, you could fall asleep on it Even with small hills, you have to stay awake when mowing with a hydro, just no gear shifting or clutching. On the 214, I could, "float," between gears without stopping or clutching, but you were supposed to stop and start with it in one of the gears.

Most of the older gear drives and cast iron hydros were indestructible. Many of the small aluminum body hydros used in the lower cost tractors today will not stand up to a lot of abuse.

-Fordlords-

 

[billbill1]

I bought a 20 hp hydro Husky 7 years ago, the hydro has held up but the quality of this machine is minimal at best. It slows on inclines and it slows on turns and the lever has to be reset. I'm sure this is a safety of some kind. It has a 46" deck and I've pulled a 44" Swisher finish mower behind it with no problem. It isn't a machine I would reccommend.

 

[Fordlords]

Those sound like the exact symptoms of a hydro on its way out- they start getting weak on inclines and sharp turns, and won't want to pull. They eventually poo out altogether, typical of the smaller aluminum sealed Peerless and Hydro-Gear transaxles.

-Fordlords-

 

[billbill1]

Gary, mine has been like that since brand new.

 

[LBrown59]

We've just finished building the house, I need a lawn tractor and I'm really budget constrained. So, I think I've decided to get a low cost lawn tractor. I'm looking at the 20hp Craftsman tractors which I can get gear or hydro. I know that on a diesel tractor, you loose HP to the hydro and I imagine that's the case here too. I don't mind gear&shifting especially if it means longer life and more hp - but are there gotchas that I'm not aware of? Can you shift while the cutting deck is engaged?

Why worry about HP when the things all ready way over powered??

 

[LBrown59]

I bought a 20 hp hydro Husky 7 years ago, the hydro has held up but the quality of this machine is minimal at best. It slows on inclines and it slows on turns and the lever has to be reset. I'm sure this is a safety of some kind. It has a 46" deck and I've pulled a 44" Swisher finish mower behind it with no problem. It isn't a machine I would reccommend.

I don't recommend MTD either.

 

[Joe1]

Looks like you have a real utility tractor for heavy work, so if you're only basically mowing and maybe towing a light cart, IMO the convenience of the hydro when mowing would outweigh the longevity issues, if any.

I've got a hydrostatic drive Toro 417 that weighs 657 lbs without the 48" deck, which is probably another 200+ lbs. We me on it, it weighs over 1,000 lbs. I've moved a trailer weighing around 2,000 lbs without any problem. It's got enough power to be rated to run a 36" rototiller. It's got only a 17 hp Kawasaki twin and power does not seem to be an issue, so the 20 HP on the Craftsman should be adequate.

I really love the convenience of the infinite mowing speeds the hydro provides. I'm not confined to just 5 or 6 set speeds of a manual transmission. Keeping in mind that 5 and 6 and maybe even 4 would be too fast to mow in some circumstances, you're limited to 3 mowing speeds with a manual.

I like the manual in my JD 770, but am glad I've gotten the hydo for not only ease of operation but the ability to run at exactly the mowing speed I want.

 

[maxtor1]

We've just finished building the house, I need a lawn tractor and I'm really budget constrained. So, I think I've decided to get a low cost lawn tractor. I'm looking at the 20hp Craftsman tractors which I can get gear or hydro. I know that on a diesel tractor, you loose HP to the hydro and I imagine that's the case here too. I don't mind gear&shifting especially if it means longer life and more hp - but are there gotchas that I'm not aware of? Can you shift while the cutting deck is engaged?

i dont like to run down the quality of products but Sears (AYP) has the worst mowing deck on the market (unless they have changed them lately). i have been repairing mowers for years and there is not doubt that the Sears require more maintenance that any other mower i have encountered. if you have a perfectly groomed lawn without any type debris, rocks, or anything that would cause a bladestrike then you will find yourself replacing the blade housings quite frequently. and the way the blade housings bolt up to the deck causes the blade housing to bend the deck. the deck housings do not fit flush against the deck. it has three bolt up places and the rest of the housing does not contact the deck. i have replaced sears blade housings 5 to 1 of other brands and some 10 to 1. dont want to scare you off but i am just speaking from experience. if i was going to buy a new mower, Sears (AYP) would be on the bottom of the list.