M59 Discussion Thread

[Chuck K.]

Good question Scotty, I put Shell Rotella in mine, I thought it meet or exceeded all diesel manufacture's specs I suppose this could lead to a similar debate SUDT vs UDT?

Actually this really irks me, will we have to use kubota's top secret proprietary C4/rX6-S21a, special formulated oil blended only for the M59? And OF course it will only be available from selected kubtota dealers

 

[Charlesaf3]

Here's what I assume, and I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong. That the other codes are minimums, and that my oil happens to meet all the other standards on the way to meeting CI4. By this reading I'm guessing rotella would be fine.

Common sense wise, though the hydraulic fluid seems to need more precision, I have trouble seeing that the best diesel oil you can find is not good enough.

BUT - I don't claim to understand the oil codes!!!

 

[Charlesaf3]

reading the back - it says exceeds CF,CG,CH,CI, and a couple of others (plus?). Endorsed by Cummins for EGR. So I'd be surprised if it weren't fine.

 

[Chuck K.]

reading the back - it says exceeds CF,CG,CH,CI, and a couple of others (plus?). Endorsed by Cummins for EGR. So I'd be surprised if it weren't fine.

I agree Charles, there is probably a logical reason why there is need for so many codes but I for one do not have the time nor care to research it. At this point I have faith the Rotella will be adequate.

 

[rScotty]

It has been a painful process to track down the meanings of the codes....and particularly why Kubota disallows the CI-4 oil in the M59.

Basically, "higher" letter codes DO NOT necessarily supercede previous codes. That was what I thought as well, but it turned out to be a misconception.

The fact is that the different codes simply address different issues. More recent codes are more recent - that's all.

CI-4 oil is specifically formulated to be compatible with the new diesel catalytic converters in the exhaust system. If your diesel still smokes, you don't have that feature. But apparently the things done to the oil to meet CI-4 requirements are not favorable to the Kubota engine. Otherwise why would that oil be specifically disallowed in the owner's manual?

From what I now understand, the evidence against the CI-4 rated oil is still debateable. But there is some good news in that everyone seems to agree that even if the worst opinions are true, using a diesel lubricity additive in the fuel, plus more frequent oil changes of the CI-4 will correct any deficiencies. That is what I plan to do with mine - a diesel fuel additive and more frequent oil (not filter) changes.
We can deal with this..... rScotty

Here's what I assume, and I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong. That the other codes are minimums, and that my oil happens to meet all the other standards on the way to meeting CI4. By this reading I'm guessing rotella would be fine.

Common sense wise, though the hydraulic fluid seems to need more precision, I have trouble seeing that the best diesel oil you can find is not good enough.

BUT - I don't claim to understand the oil codes!!!

 

[Charlesaf3]

I'd be lying if I said I fully understood this issue, but thanks - at least I understand it slightly better!

I note in the other thread you started about it, that the Kubota tech said it shouldn't be an issue with Ultra low sulfur diesel, but that the worry was with low sulfur.

 

[rScotty]

OOps, after all that research I called out the wrong oil. It is CJ-4 that is disallowed...and CI-4 is the one that is correct for the M59. I reversed them. So I've quoted myself below and changed it. I wish I could delete the original message, but my "edit previous messages" function is turned off.

Again, CI-4 is for M59. CJ-4 is specifically disallowed.

And as a note, the 15W-40 oil that John Deere sells for their own tractors is currently CI-4 typed. Interestingly, it is not CJ-4 The JD brand name is PLUS- 50 and it comes in 2.5 gallon jugs just right for the M59. The dealer says that Shell makes it.

It has been a painful process to track down the meanings of the codes....and particularly why Kubota disallows the CJ-4 oil in the M59.

Basically, "higher" letter codes DO NOT necessarily supercede previous codes. That was what I thought as well, but it turned out to be a misconception.

The fact is that the different codes simply address different issues. More recent codes are more recent - that's all.

CJ-4 oil is specifically formulated to be compatible with the new diesel catalytic converters in the exhaust system. If your diesel still smokes, you don't have that feature. But apparently the things done to the oil to meet CJ-4 requirements are not favorable to the Kubota engine. Otherwise why would that oil be specifically disallowed in the owner's manual?

From what I now understand, the evidence against the CJ-4 rated oil is still debateable. But there is some good news in that everyone seems to agree that even if the worst opinions are true, using a diesel lubricity additive in the fuel, plus more frequent oil changes of the CJ-4 will correct any deficiencies. That is what I plan to do with mine - use a diesel fuel additive and more frequent oil (not filter) changes if I cannot find CI-4 oil in a suitable brand name and viscosity.
We can deal with this..... rScotty

 

[Chato]

I am using Rotella every 50 hours. I figure if it's good enough for my Cummins it'll be good enough for the kubota.

I also use regular ol' Kubota UDT not the super UDT.

 

[rScotty]

I am using Rotella every 50 hours. I figure if it's good enough for my Cummins it'll be good enough for the kubota.

I also use regular ol' Kubota UDT not the super UDT.

Hmmm....my Kubota dealer would agree with you. My Kubota dealership is one of the oldest ones in the state, but until this year they didn't even carry the Kubota brand lubricants. This year they do sell some Kubota lubs to customers, but they still do all their warranty work using bulk lubricants of their own choosing. It turns out that doing that is a common way for all local dealerships to cut costs. The local Ford dealer does it too, and his use of aftermarket filters cost us a nice new 7.3 diesel engine at 40K miles- although that one I did get warranteed after some hassle.

The reason I spend so much time researching oils and maintenance is that I like to keep as close as I can to the engineering lubrication philosophy that the machine was designed for. Sometimes that's not easy. And I'm finding that it may or may not be an equal concern to the dealer.

Sometimes if you want it done right you have to either shout loudly or do it yourself.
rScotty

 

[Charlesaf3]

cynically, if your machine dies in 8 years, you might be annoyed, and some dealers not all that unhappy...

Newer machines may (and probably do) have tighter tolerances than the old ones. Maybe it doesn't matter, but lube/oil is cheap insurance. Though I'd bet even with mediocre stuff, changing it frequently would cover a multitude of sins.