M9000HDC3 or M105SHDC

WhiteRock · Feb 13, 2005

I have a question having to do with torque rise. I don't know much about haying other than its a lot easier and more fun to get out of the field with machines than by hand.

You say torque rise is everything... Does this mean that you do task where you want/have to operate at low RPM and want a LOT of torque response? Can't this be overcome my adding a few RPMs and adding HP?

The amount of torque rise is mostly derived from engine displacement. Lots of torque rise means more CID, means more hourly fuel burn. Is this true?

slowzuki · Feb 14, 2005

I can't exactly remember what torque rise was so I looked it up.

My bosch handbook doesn't give a definition but explains that basicly the injection pump has an additional mechanism to govern the engine speed. When it gets to a set rpm, it backs off fuel delivery with a spring calibrated to match the flywheel governors characteristics. This saves fuel. When a load is encountered the fuel delivery (and available torque) is quickly ramped up to maintain the set speed.

Without this, a load can get ahead of the governor and drag the engine speed down. The mechanism effectively allows the machine to go to a max fueling condition for a given rpm, as opposed to a max accelerator handle position.

So from what I understand, it lets the tractor temporarily exceed its SAE rated output torque when the governor is reacting to a load.

This make sense to anyone who knows more about it /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Torque is based only on two things, mean effective pressure and displacment. Diesels are quite lucky as more CID doesn't always mean poorer fuel consumption when doing the same work. At *really* high loads diesels efficiency starts dropping and approaches that of a gas engine. So an overworked small diesel may be less efficient than a larger one. At low loads the efficiency drops off too, so over sizing a diesel doesn't always help.

( I have a question having to do with torque rise. I don't know much about haying other than its a lot easier and more fun to get out of the field with machines than by hand.

You say torque rise is everything... Does this mean that you do task where you want/have to operate at low RPM and want a LOT of torque response? Can't this be overcome my adding a few RPMs and adding HP?

The amount of torque rise is mostly derived from engine displacement. Lots of torque rise means more CID, means more hourly fuel burn. Is this true? )

slowzuki · Feb 14, 2005

http://www.kubotaworld.com/KubotaWorld/ad.asp?ID=147

An M9000 at a good price.

slowzuki · Feb 14, 2005

I was doing some looking on the M95s and 105s just for kicks and they come with a 16x16 standard and can get a 32x32 it seems.

Std is 4 speeds on the stick, 2 speed electric over hydraulic syncro (on the fly) range change on the stick, and a non-synchro range change.

The fancy tranny has the same plus a power shift range splitter that drops you 17%.

Reading more it isn't that bad of deal, the 32x32 gives 16x16 on the fly. The powershift drop of 17% would be perfect when you hit a bigger than normal windrow or a heavy patch mowing.

5030 · Feb 14, 2005

Hey Bird Man:

Just for comparison I stopped at my NH dealer this afternoon. I did a little research on the internet this weekend at the prodding of the NH tractor guys.

I priced a NH TL90A with a 52LC FEL on R1 radial ag's, 4WD and 2 remotes plus the mid mount remotes for the loader, fully optioned cab and a 24x24 hydraulic shuttle. The NH has about 70 cubic inches on the M9000, but the 9000 is intercooled and turbo'd, while the 90A is only turbo'd. Plus the PTO is rated at 77 while the M9000 is rated at 80. Being a diesel man, I know that intercooling gives a denser charge and develops more torque and horsepower from a given displacement. Anyway, I almost had a coronary.
The A PLAN PRICE was $4000 higher than the M9000. Actually it was about even with the 105SA.

The dealer I am dealing with is looking for a cab model with the creep speed for me. That will give me the 12x12 with the hydraulic shuttle. The one advantage of the NH is the road speed which is about 2.2 mph higher than the M9000.

If I am spending 40G's for a tractor I might as well get the creep speed option. Actually, on the Ultra Cab, the creep speed option gives you the rear wiper washer and the side defroster in the cab.......I smell a new tractor soon. Matter of fact, I just got off the phone with the dealer and we are 4 weeks out right now. That was easy. Want my payment book??

Guess a forum name change is in order too.

_RaT_ · Feb 14, 2005

Daryl, how many hours did you end up putting on the L5030?

5030 · Feb 14, 2005

RAT:

The hourmeter shows 630 as of last night. What do you think about the NH. Guess Ford employees have no "good" deals anymore.

It will get a few more hours between now and when it ceases to be mine anymore.

stevenf · Feb 14, 2005

5030, I also own a M9000 it is not the cab model as I'm working on a ranch with it that has lots of trees everywhere and I didn't feel comfortable with any loss of vision as many places on the ranch I'm threading the needle and figured I'd end with a cab with cracks and pieces missing quickly even being very careful. As far as NH's faster road speed (bear in mind I'm a newbie tractor owner) I don't think I'd have wanted to go any faster on the road than the 21.5 MPH its rated at I drove it to my dealer and back 17.5 miles one way and there were many times when I was doing far less than max speed although I had the grapple on the front and the BB on the rear with solid filled tires it just doesn't meet my criteria of a race car although I do have a Jeep CJ7 with a 327cuid, headers, high rise cam, fuel injected and lockers that will stand up on 2 wheels and walk across the pasture so I can assure you I'm no weenie where speed is concerned it just doesn't feel right on a tractor as the power steering is quite powerful and you can end up in a tangled heep of iron fast. Steve

froggy · Feb 14, 2005

Price the TL without the "A" plan and you will really have a coronary.

5030 · Feb 14, 2005

stevenf:

We do what is referred to as "road farming" here. As all we do is forage, our fields aren't contigious and I travel miles on roads to and from fields. A guy down the road has an older IH that will run at 30 mph. Now that's scary, but it's great for pulling hay wagons.

This season we are custom cutting a 57 acre field that's about 10 miles away and I don't relish spending any more time on pavement than I have to. For some reason, automobile drivers seem to be real ignorant of road going farm equipment.

I know about cab accidents. I tore the door off the 5030. Actually, I had the door open, caught it on a branch and shattered it. $700.00 later I had a new door. It's easy to forget to close the door. It's all glass. Believe me, I always look twice now. I am also very careful about branches and the like. Before each season, I take the quad to the fields with my pruning saw and trim trees around the perimeter. That trip is really two fold. I have a spot sprayer on the quad so the thistles and the like get a shot of Roundup Ultra.

The 5030 was my first cab tractor.....I just can't operate an open station unit anymore. Kubota needs to make their a/c outlets like JD....you can stuff an aluminum beverage can in the outlet after you remove the grill. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

5030 · Feb 14, 2005

Froggy:

Actually, they were writing up the quote and I assumed that they knew it was A plan. All my hay tools are NH and I bought them all from this dealer and they were all A plan so I assumed they knew. I asked him the difference between retail and A plan and he told me 15%. Man, they are real proud of those tractors. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

jltrent · Feb 14, 2005

One size taller tires will easy make up for the difference in road speed. The front tires will have to match if it is 4x4. I don't know which Kubota you were talking about , but the M9000 I think comes standard with 18.4-30 inch tires behind. If it were upgraded to 18.4-34 inch it would go faster.

5030 · Feb 14, 2005

34's equate to 32's in the front. It's FWA.

Actually, I am getting R1 Radial 12.4R30 front and 18.4R30 rears. She will be plenty tall in the saddle. That will give me about 20" of crop clearance, just right for bailing corn stalks.

slowzuki · Feb 14, 2005

Not a lot of row crop here but what do the corn stalk bales get used for?

froggy · Feb 14, 2005

That is exactly why my next tractor will be Kubota, not John Deere or New Holland.

stevenf · Feb 14, 2005

jltrent, I don't want to stir the pot but its my understanding that when you increase the size of the tires you possibly do 3 things one maybe an advantage you will increase the road speed capability two you might increase your fuel economy if that were a consideration probably not for tractors since it would be minimal but the last is you decrease your power to the ground in the process not sure it would make a great difference in any respect but I'm sure some of these smart TBN folks have a formula for it like they do for everything it seems I need to start a log of all the great formulas as I don't know where you can find a lot of them without the people who work in these areas giving their input. I will say again I don't remember what type of machine or how big your used to operating but I really am serious that the top speed for my M9000 seems a little fast for my likeing as a matter of fact next time you go by a Kubota dealer test drive one in high gear in fourth range with the power steering just rock it back and forth a little and you'll decide as I did the extra speed isn't worth the white knuckles if you hit a little speed bump or hole on one side it sure feels like you could be wearing that big ole tractor instead of riding on it.
Steve

40Kchicks · Feb 14, 2005

Hey Daryl

When I was comparing tractors Kubota was the best deal in my area. I ended up getting my M9000 for a couple thousand less than NH wanted for TN75 and Deere wasn’t even close. But when your spending those kind of bucks it’s crazy not to look into every option.

Did you notice that the M9000 has front and rear differential locks? I have used it several times and it’s impressive to truly have all four wheels pulling. This winter I had that thing covered with manure and black mud. You could hardly tell what color it was. I got out the pressure washer and it looks brand new. I love new tractors.

I’m glad that I’m not getting your payment book. This year is the 5th year on our farm and I’m looking forward to paying some things off in particular the skid steer and the truck. It will be nice to keep that $800 bucks a month.

Keep us up to date.

Eric

jltrent · Feb 15, 2005

I have a M6800 which is just about the same tractor as the M9000 without the turbo and intercooler and as far as highway speed goes it is the fastest tractor I have and I have a MF, Ford/NH and a John Deere. He said highway speed was important and I told him a way to increase. Also I agree with another post the foot levers where you can lock either the front, rear or all four wheels in is great especially with a loader. The fastest tractor I have ever driver on the road was a Valtra Valmet and that sucker I believe would do 30mph. It felt almost recklest at top highway speed.

slowzuki · Feb 15, 2005

Are you the poster with foam filled tires? I can't imagine keeping that sucker on the road.

It takes a bit of getting used to driving a tractor at top speed but once you get past the no feedback its not too bad. Our old international can go almost 25 mph with no load.

( the top speed for my M9000 seems a little fast for my likeing as a matter of fact next time you go by a Kubota dealer test drive one in high gear in fourth range with the )

stevenf · Feb 15, 2005

slowzuki, I am the one with the solid urethane foam filled tires and since this is my first tractor to own, dad had an old ford but it stayed on the ranch. I hadn't considered that to be a road speed problem but that could give me the feeling of instability at high speeds I guess although I did test drive it on the road before the fill and it still seemed a little scary when wide open on flat pavement. As far as being bumpy or rough mine with the solid tires is actually quite cushy as they didn't use that hard foam they used the softer variety because I'm using it up in the hills and I wanted the softness for traction ability when I load it up with a several thousand pounds of stuff you can actually see the side walls flex a little but empty you can't detect any at all.
Steve