Made in China

[DonWorrell]

"Made in Japan" never struck me as a "negative" connotation. The Japanese have historically built excellent quality machinery that anyone would be proud to own.

Let's not forget the Japanese war machine of over 60 years ago almost conquered the world. They had some pretty nice equipment back then....."Zero" fighter planess, Battleship Yamato, you know....little stuff like that All that from a country the size of California with almost no natural resources.

The Chinese have never struck me as a group that built any machinery of noted or lasting quality.
The only reason for the upsurge of Chinese industry is that they have a super cheap labor force, low taxes and virtually no enviromental regulations. A nice healthy dose of toxic lead paint included, free of charge!

"Chinese quality" has never been the reason for the flight of industry to China.

Extremely well said. Japan did make some quaility products but they also made some sub-par items.

So the question is can China do the same?

Don

 

[Builder]

Extremely well said. Japan did make some quaility products but they also made some sub-par items.

Thanks.
I really can't think of too many, maybe a few. Compared to China, almost nothing. Earlier Japanese vehicles were prone to rusting out early, but so were lots of American made vehicles. Look at their electronics, cameras, engines, motorcycles, etc. Pretty good stuff. I don't know about you, but everything Chinese I've owned has always failed prematurely or never performed as good as similar products from Westernized countries.

" So the question is can China do the same?
Don"

I think they can, but unlike Japan or the US, it won't come from within. It'll come from outside American management turning their backs on American manufacturing, sending their engineers to China to train their metalurgists, engineers and eventually labor force to try to build up to our standards. It can be done, but what's the benefit? I have a friend who is an engineer at a local battery manufacturing company. They laid off all their workers and sent him to China to train a Chinese engineer how to build the same battery system in China. He told me his boss is getting very rich off the cheaper, less regulated Chinese manufacturing and has little guilt over laying off what were his neighbors and folks who worked hard in his plant for many years. Yet the price of his battery products have dropped very little. So who benefits here? I think only the Chinese and the owner of the company.

We lose Americans jobs and we become more reliant on other countries for more and more products.

 

[Sergei]

Just remember the old Adage: You Get What You Pay For !!!!!!....

 

[GLLinMO]

Years ago, for mass comsumer items - if it was imported, smaller and cheaper than an American items - it was automatically assumed to be of lower quality. It may have been just fine or superior to American item, but that was not how it was looked on by consumers. Japanese items fell into that category. Over time, they reality became that they actually as good as, and maybe even better, that US goods. Certainly their manufacturing capabilities and R&D efforts raised the bar in a number of comsumer areas.

China offers cheap labor and lackof regulations, so production costs are low. If a product has labor and mfg costs as a main component - to maximize profits you look for low cost places to make it. Driven by the $$$.

Of course - too many US consumers what cheap. Cheap and acceptable quality. If you want to play in that market, that's what you need.

And US corporations are being driven by PROFITS-NOW. You think that with stock prices dropping, this will get any better? Wish people wouild stop focusing on short - term profits/gratification - maybe someday.

 

[Red55]

I agreed that corporations today are being driven by profits because the people at the top are rewarded with bonuses. I am not a religious person but I do believe that when the people at the top had higher morals based on religion they were more concerned about their fellow man/or employee and their name in the community than the size or number of their TOYS.

In regards to Japan it was an American after WWII by the name of W Edwards Deming that showed the Japanese the importance of Quality. And to their credit they embraced the concept. The Chinese will figure it out

IMHO -Ed

 

[DavesTractor]

I agreed that corporations today are being driven by profits because the people at the top are rewarded with bonuses. I am not a religious person but I do believe that when the people at the top had higher morals based on religion they were more concerned about their fellow man/or employee and their name in the community than the size or number of their TOYS.

In regards to Japan it was an American after WWII by the name of W Edwards Deming that showed the Japanese the importance of Quality. And to their credit they embraced the concept. The Chinese will figure it out

IMHO -Ed

And Mahindra won the Deming award a while back, a rare thing for a tractor company.

 

[magyarbacsi]

More on China made Mahindras. I've been following the posts on Chinese tractors for some time and went back in several years posts. The most comon and disruptive failures are due to the forging and metallurgy of Chinese metal. Two recent posts on the Chinese tractors are a steering knucle failure on a Kama 454 with 50 hrs while Jim was clearing snow. Rob has an older Kama 454 with the front gears of the 4x4 stripped. Both of these appear over and over on the Chinese tractors.

I dont have a 4x4 on my Mahindra, with only 2hrs of use yet. How many Mahindra owners with 4x4 have experienced such failures? I have not read any such problems on the Mahindra posts. Leaking and seal failures, read a few, but metal failure as mentioned, no. If Mahindra uses Chinese methods of forge/casting and metallurgy, will these problems start to appear on the Mahindra posts?

The majority of the front axle failures occur while using the FEL and needing the extra grip of the 4x4, for what it was designed for? Just when you want to take advantage of its purpose is when it gives up. I dont buy that nor would I buy a Mahindra made using the same technology.

 

[DavesTractor]

When I was in China at the plant, they showed us the castings from about two years ago when they bought the plant. Side by side they had the current castings. One was chinese farm grade, one was automotive quality and very good. It is a valid concern, one that Mahindra appears to have addressed.

In India, they have their own steel plant and quality control is very high.

On a side note, many tractor companies don't actually use there own front axles, many buy them as assemblies from companies that do nothing but make front axles. I think Mahindra has a mix of both, but I do not have that info in front of me so I couldn't tell you which models are which.

 

[wallace]

Well I told you guys after I got back from my hands on with the China/Mahindra I would lets you all know my thoughts...
I have placed my order and I will also be purchasing one for myself and I will put that in my rental fleet...I will see what we can tear up if anything.
I think that for the money spent on this tractor by the cunsumer you can't go wrong.

Please everyone is intitled to their opinion but from a dealers perspective we have customers that come in and tell us that they can purchase a tractor from this magazine for$$$$
Well it is very hard to persuade them to add a couple grand more to get this "higher end tractor".

So with that being said I now have a "cheap tractor" with incentive financing, a 2 year warranty and most of all a GOOD DEALER NETWORK, to keep them running.
Rick

 

[Tim_in_IA]

Rick any cheap dozers on the horizon ??

Those magazine companies have a dozer too that has caught my eye from time to time. But durability and support were issues of mine.

 

[montanaman]

Well I told you guys after I got back from my hands on with the China/Mahindra I would lets you all know my thoughts...
I have placed my order and I will also be purchasing one for myself and I will put that in my rental fleet...I will see what we can tear up if anything.
I think that for the money spent on this tractor by the cunsumer you can't go wrong.

Please everyone is intitled to their opinion but from a dealers perspective we have customers that come in and tell us that they can purchase a tractor from this magazine for$$$$
Well it is very hard to persuade them to add a couple grand more to get this "higher end tractor".

So with that being said I now have a "cheap tractor" with incentive financing, a 2 year warranty and most of all a GOOD DEALER NETWORK, to keep them running.
Rick

Folks, read what he said carefully!! This is the reality that a dealer faces every day of the week! I sell nothing in the quality range that the box stores sell, but I am expected to sell higher quality at their price and be here 24-7 to service with a lifetime warranty. I am trying my absolute hardest to only offer high quality products but you can only imagine the sales that I don't get because there will always be something cheaper available if your only purchase thought is up front cost!!

I just hope the day never comes when everyone in the USA is talking about when you used to be able to buy a "good" tractor like we do with so many other products. We just can not have our cake and eat it too!

This tractor does have a place in the market and should help sales to folks looking to spend as little as they can but lets hope that most dealers will market it right and not pretend that it's a high end tractor or some day, it may be all we have!

Ken

 

[kevanos]

The ES 25 "looks" identical to the Lenars that were imported, but I've yet to actually see one. Remember that Mahindra has spent time on their reputation. They originally started business in India building Willy's Jeeps and International Harvester tractors under license. The first tractors sold in USA in the 80s were of IH design.

Since then, they have established new designs, source tractors from Mitsubishi in Japan, Tong Yang in South Korea, as well as their own; have expanded and bought a competing Indian tractor company, Swaraj (which was sold in USA for a short time); purchased the Chinese tractor factory of Jiangling (which have been sold under various names in USA), and are currently the 3rd largest tractor manufacturer. They are in line to be #1 within the next couple of years.

(Note: I have no vested interest in Mahindra, don't know any dealers, and don't have any dealers near me).

 

[Poboy]

This is a product that will help Mahindra dealers sale tractors to customers who were never going to spend the money for a top quality tractor and would have purchased a chinese tractor somewhere else . The 2525 is a great deal it is a lot of tractor for the money and has had quailty changes made over the testing period plus you get a warranty low rate financing and dealer support .So if your in the market for a economy tractor get the Mahindra you will be very pleased.

 

[Maka]

How much is the Chinese Mahindra with a loader anyway?

Maka

 

[MAHINDRA OF OHIO]

I will be seeing the new China tractors first hand this coming week and then I can make the decission if I will sell them or not.

I not sure how I can pass them up... a 25 hp 4 wheel drive tractor with a loader and r4 tires to retail for around 12-13k

Do the right thing--don't buy that China BS

 

[Builder]

Do the right thing--don't buy that China BS

I have to agree. Their government subsidizes their exports to the USA and blocks American imports into their country. It's not a level or fair playing field.

They also own 40% of our debt, buying from them and financing probably only adds to this problem.

I am avoiding buying Chinese products for the future health of our nation.

 

[fastgun]

I really dislike it that the USA has gone from producer to consumer. Exporter to importer. I'm a middle age fella and remember when made in Japan, Korea, China etc.....was a sign of junk to be avoided.

What is truly amazing, almost unbelievable to me .... is that a great many well informed, USA proud persons such as I are considering a tractor made in India on the basis that it is a quality product what gives a good value for what you get.

Imagine, India producing a tractor that really is good!

 

[Builder]

I really dislike it that the USA has gone from producer to consumer. Exporter to importer. I'm a middle age fella and remember when made in Japan, Korea, China etc.....was a sign of junk to be avoided.

What is truly amazing, almost unbelievable to me .... is that a great many well informed, USA proud persons such as I are considering a tractor made in India on the basis that it is a quality product what gives a good value for what you get.

Imagine, India producing a tractor that really is good!

I don't have any problem buying foreign. Chinese is a different story. I'm a middle aged guy and I firmly believe the Chinese will be telling my children how to live when they're my age. They'll be too indebted to them and too reliant upon them.

 

[ssgtibbetts]

OK so what is a good value. I was looking at some grey's then I spotted these Mihandra's wich the dealer says came from Japan with a Mitsubishi engine. Now I dont know waht to believe. John Deere uses Yanmar engines Mihandra Mitsubishi Cub Cadet (Yanmar) so what is actually built in america with american parts?

Maybe I should just buy a mule. There still made in America, right?

 

[bindian]

OK so what is a good value. I was looking at some grey's then I spotted these Mihandra's wich the dealer says came from Japan with a Mitsubishi engine. Now I dont know waht to believe. John Deere uses Yanmar engines Mihandra Mitsubishi Cub Cadet (Yanmar) so what is actually built in america with american parts?

Maybe I should just buy a mule. There still made in America, right?

Ssgtibbetts,
My KMW ML175 loader and my Bradco 511 backhoe, along with my Kimber Pro CDP II. Not sure about anything else. My 6520 has bolts with fractional sized heads and metric threads. That's a head scratcher.
hugs, Brandi