Made in USA

[dave1949]

MossRoad -

It is the nature of unions that banding together is their only strength - would you have them give it up? You don't think businesses do the same things?

Any "ism" carried to an extreme goes off the rails, including unionism; but it is worth remembering how unions came to be and the abuses in the workplace they by and large solved until the past 15 years or so. You can thank the union movement for many things if you have ever worked for a company, check out the history. Anybody shooting at you for refusing to work?

Just to be a Devil's advocate, the Mafia took over the Teamsters union back in the 60's and 70's. The trucking industry looks pretty healthy now, they get huge taxpayer subsidies in the form of cheap fuel and decent roads to move long-haul freight just about the dumbest way possible. There are a lot of contradictions here.

But back to the topic - I do try to buy USA made goods, wish there were more of them. The whole concept that we can all earn a living in high tech or service industries is hokum IMHO. We need jobs that the average person can do and support a family on.

 

[archerm3]

Really? A bunch of people banded together that tell you you cannot work somewhere unless you pay them dues... or a bunch of people banded together that tell you you cannot work somewhere unless you pay them protection money. Either way it kinda sounds like extortion to me.

Yeah, the $15 I paid a month was real steep ...in exchange for protection from layoff/rehire cycles every 2 weeks and being fired because someone didn't like the kind of car I drove to work or what my wife said at the christmas party. If I thought anyone here would even care 2 cents to listen to an opposing viewpoint I would explain.

There is a difference between closed shops and open shops too. There is a difference between good unions and bad unions from the worker's perspective. There is a difference between good companies and bad companies to work for. Everybody knocks unions yet has never experienced them. Very few have experienced them and still knock them. Business owners knock them with about the same amount of disdain as they carry for a competitor, a supplier that price gouges, and a landlord that raises the lease rate. Big deal. Unions go as far back as civilization, as in guilds.

 

[archerm3]

MossRoad -

It is the nature of unions that banding together is their only strength - would you have them give it up? You don't think businesses do the same things?

Any "ism" carried to an extreme goes off the rails, including unionism; but it is worth remembering how unions came to be and the abuses in the workplace they by and large solved until the past 15 years or so. You can thank the union movement for many things if you have ever worked for a company, check out the history. Anybody shooting at you for refusing to work?

Just to be a Devil's advocate, the Mafia took over the Teamsters union back in the 60's and 70's. The trucking industry looks pretty healthy now, they get huge taxpayer subsidies in the form of cheap fuel and decent roads to move long-haul freight just about the dumbest way possible. There are a lot of contradictions here.

But back to the topic - I do try to buy USA made goods, wish there were more of them. The whole concept that we can all earn a living in high tech or service industries is hokum IMHO. We need jobs that the average person can do and support a family on.

Good post esp the bolded part

 

[dave1949]

Everybody knocks unions yet has never experienced them. Very few have experienced them and still knock them. Business owners knock them with about the same amount of disdain as they carry for a competitor, a supplier that price gouges, and a landlord that raises the lease rate. Big deal. Unions go as far back as civilization, as in guilds.

Good points! I don't understand some of the knee jerk anti-union feelings out there either. Part of it is folks who work in professions don't get treated the same way as more average hourly employees. Some just never experience the negative, or if they do, have skills in demand elsewhere and so move on to a nicer place with no bad effects personally. I have experienced both kinds of jobs.

 

[ultrarunner]

Just to score a couple of points for the USA and to make you guys proud I purchased several made in USA items in Salzburg Austria last month...

My biggest single purchase was a $600 Made in USA lawn mower... probably cost $275 here on sale at Sears. I also saw a lot of lawn tractors also proudly wearing Made in USA.

Seems like USA made goods are in demand overseas. The problem has been they are costly.

China made goods are a problem in Europe... just like here. Many old line tool manufacturers are shutting down or out sourcing to China.

With the dollar worth half of what it was just a few years ago... Made in USA products are now becoming affordable.

Other items I noticed are X5 BMW's and Z4's that had made in USA labels along with Caterpillar and John Deere Tractors made in USA... although the John Deere attachments had Made in France labels...

Saw a number of Jeep Grand Cherokees and the one I checked was also Made in USA and Honda motors and generators...

 

[ultrarunner]

Just a side note...

My brother has owned a 1968 Mustang 30 years... it's a decent car with 160k miles on the rebuilt motor that he was no longer using...

He put an ad on Craigslist and had foreign buyers standing in his driveway bidding on it... it's just a regular coupe with 302 V8...

Anyway, withing 24 hours the car is en-route to New Zealand and almost went to Germany...

Foreigners are picking-up old American Cars, Antiques and Airplanes and paying top dollar...

Made in USA still means something to some people... no matter where in the world they may be.

 

[MossRoad]

Yeah, the $15 I paid a month was real steep ...in exchange for protection from layoff/rehire cycles every 2 weeks and being fired because someone didn't like the kind of car I drove to work or what my wife said at the christmas party. If I thought anyone here would even care 2 cents to listen to an opposing viewpoint I would explain.

There is a difference between closed shops and open shops too. There is a difference between good unions and bad unions from the worker's perspective. There is a difference between good companies and bad companies to work for. Everybody knocks unions yet has never experienced them. Very few have experienced them and still knock them. Business owners knock them with about the same amount of disdain as they carry for a competitor, a supplier that price gouges, and a landlord that raises the lease rate. Big deal. Unions go as far back as civilization, as in guilds.

I've worked side by side with two unions and all they seemed to do was try to get as much as possible from the company while working as little as possible. It was disgusting. They are gone now.

I tried to get into the electricians union apprenticeship program when I got out of technical college. They refused me entry because I was too old. I was 26! They said I could go to work for a union shop and pay union dues and go through a union apprenticeship program through the shop for 4 years, but would receive no union benefits during the time I was paying them dues. However, I had two friends that got into the union immediately because they had relatives in the union. That is cronyism, nepotism and several other 'isms all rolled into one. I have no use for unions based on those experiences. I am doing fine on my own.

 

[soulasphil]

Is there still such a thing as a car or tractor or other complex object Made in the USA ?
I wanted a US tractor and had a JD 3520 shipped direct from the States where she's supposed to have been built. Looking at it carefully I notice the engine was built in Japan, the FEL posts in China, the bucket in Canada, some mechanical components in Spain, hydraulic couplers in Italy, and I haven't looked everywhere! I think the industrial era is coming to an end, blaming management or unions is a thing of the past. Firms must be organised on the scale of the planet and outsource most of the manufacturing to keep quality up and prices down. Isn't that the way we have already reached such a high standard of living ?

 

[dave1949]

. Firms must be organised on the scale of the planet and outsource most of the manufacturing to keep quality up and prices down. Isn't that the way we have already reached such a high standard of living ?

You probably enjoy a higher standard of living in France

I worked in Germany 1985-1994, even then I thought the Germans were doing pretty good compared to here. They certainly had better beer

The theory sounds fine, but the details of how it happens are the problem. Vise Grip's recent decision to shut down it's USA plant and move production overseas is a good example. Who will benefit from that move? Not the people who used to have jobs and spent their money in the community. Sure, vise grips might be cheaper, but I have 4 already - just like most others on this forum I suspect.

 

[dave1949]

I have no use for unions based on those experiences. I am doing fine on my own.

Nothing wrong with being on your own. After many years in the corporate world, I tried like heck to get my kids to really consider being independently employed in some way. No takers.

Those bad union experiences were good karma for you.

The apprenticeship programs go begging for high school graduates to join them here in Maine. I don't understand it, 'free' training and a chance at a nice, stable income. We don't have that many jobs here, I would think it would be a no brainer.