Mahindra's lift ratings...

[SonnieP]

Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

Just curious...

Why does Mahindra rate their 3pt lift capacity at the lift point instead of 24" behind?

Why do they rate the FEL lift capacity at the pivot pins instead of center of bucket?

Thanks!

 

[PBinWA]

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

I would suspect that it has something to do with "Marketing" and that these numbers were higher than the other. Or it is just easier to measure the values this way.

 

[rback33]

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

I think it is a bit of an industry standard thing. I think if you look at most comapnies specs they list capacities at the lift point/pivot as well as X many inches out from there. Not every companies attachments are the same so X is truly variable. All companies have a lift/pivot point that the forces MUST pass through. Does this make sense? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

Sonnie, as I posted in other threads here is what I see.

I believe it is a MARKETING thing. It simply looks better to rate the FEL at the Pivot Point and the 3pt at the Ball Eyes. There is NO QUESTION in my mind that companies USED to post data at bucket center points and 24" behind. NOW that seems to be changing, and that I believe is the fault of the marketing departments using numbers that SEEM to be better because they know darn well that MOST consumers won't dig deeper into the number than just reading the advertising/marketing brochures.


As it appears to me now the following companies list FEL capacity at the bucket center in on-line MARKETING material:
- Century
- Kubota
- Massey Ferguson
- Case-New Holland

As it appears to me now the following companies list 3pt capacity at 24" behind the ball eyes in on-line MARKETING material:
- Kioti
- Kubota
- Case-New Holland

As it appears to me now the following companies list BREAKOUT force in MARKETING material at 500mm ahead of the pivot point and/or the bucket lip:
- Branson
- Century
- Kubota
- Massey-Ferguson
- Case-New Holland


The only 2 companies who meet my "honest marketing test" and make ALL 3 lists are
- Kubota
- Case-New Holland

You will notice I left JOHN DEERE out completely. They are sort of an odd duck, it appeared to me when I did this study a while back that for SOME tractors they used 24" behind the ball eyes for the 3pt and the bucket center point on the FEL and for SOME tractors they used pivot point and 24" behind the ball eyes and for SOME tractors they used pivot point and ball eyes. BUT in their praise, they have their manuals on line and you can find ALL the measurements on their manuals.

I also give Massey a bit of extra credit points for some of the numbers they make available and easy to find, such as breakout force at the bucket lip. That is probably the most true number to actually measure. Some brands don't even show that number in their product manuals!

 

[Dargo]

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

I dunno, but I do agree with a buddy of mine. He, for a short while, had a Mahindra dealership until Mahindra got a complaint from a garden center 49 miles away. Mahindra pulled his dealership then. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Anyway, I've had the discussion with him about the different rating capacities. He said that as long as you can actually compare the same lift capacity at the same measuring point from tractor A to tractor B, it really didn't matter to him. I agree with that sentiment.

It's only when the numbers are skewed to show one tractor as appearing to be stronger than another, when it really isn't, that I have an issue. As you can tell, I also disagree with Mahindra giving protected territories to garden centers that operate out of a yard barn (literally), and not allow a real tractor dealership to handle their product. I think that hurts their reputation as well as sales. Odds are pretty strong that I would have bought a Mahindra from the guy I am friends with the last time around if Mahindra hadn't yanked his franchise because he was 1 mile within a protected territory of a dealer who may sell 4 or 5 a year. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I have more of an issue with that policy of theirs than their rating policy.

 

[Charlie_in_TX]

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

Dargo, something has to be missing from that story. I have at least 3 Mahindra dealers within 49 miles of me, all east or north east. If you streach the search out to 60 miles there are 5 dealers. As a matter of fact if you start at Top Flight in Cut n Shoot, Bar J is 20 miles east in Cleveland and Knox is 29 miles south in Houston. I don't know what is missing but something is.

 

[JerryG]

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

Bob,
Since you have been posting this, I have went back and done some checking on the MF spec. It appears that MF uses the 24" behind the balls on all tractors other than the compacts. I think that they have changed this in the last 4-5 years, because when I bought a tractor in 1999 I think that specs showed both figures. I would agree that it has to do with deception of the average consumer by several of the companies. When the tractors get above the compact stage, more of them are sold to farmers.

 

[Dargo]

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

Yes, the missing component is whether the dealer negotiated an "exclusive" marketing area from Mahindra. I think if Mahindra is going to grow, they will have to go back and re-think some of their "exclusive" areas given to dealers who sell a half a dozen tractors a year.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

Jerry,
Like I wrote, I actually give M-F some bonus points for some of the numbers they do make available. If you look at it overall, they are one of the "more" honest companies in my book. And if you dig deep enough, you can find the numbers. I think Massey has their roots deep in the AG product sector and that is why larger tractors would be rated as "honest" and smaller tractors may not be.

But the M-F numbers, like the JD numbers are out there if you dig deep and look hard. On the other hand, some other brands don't tell you the truth until after you write the check, the tractor is offloaded from the trailer, and you dig deep into their product manual to find the actual numbers. THAT practice is something I have a problem with!

In the "over 40hp" classes, I am a firm believer in the Nebraska tests. They may not be perfect, but they are darn good, and while there is no true pass/fail, but simply a posting of data, the tests keep companies to a stardard that is basic honesty. As good as I think Kubota is, and as fool proof as the B2910 has been for my use, if I was buying over 40hp, I would probably steer away from a brand that has treated me very well and go to a brand that has an independant testing lab PROVE that the tractor is what it is supposed to be! Massey, Deere, Case, New Holland, McCormick and others participate in the Nebraska tests. Branson, Century, Jinma, Kama, Kioti, Kubota, Mahindra, Montana do not (unless things changed recently).

 

[SonnieP]

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

Can we find out what Mahindra rates their 3pt hitch at 24" behind lift point and their bucket at center?

Where's our Mahindra marketing gentleman? Surely he can tell us the specs.

M-F was way up my list on tractors when I was simply lookin' at just tractors alone at 50HP or so. Considered the 451 heavily... even posted in the M-F forum. When I decided to jump up to the 65HP range w/ FEL, the M-F dealer advised me (both M-F dealers I was talking with) that I really needed to step up to the 471 and the price was ~$4000 more. M-F was originally my first choice... their price on the 451 was very comparable to the 5500 (2WD Models) and I really like their engines and they've been around forever... fine tractor IMO. I very likely would have chosen the 451 for a 2WD model over the 5500.