Boone
Gold Member
I agree. It looks to me that the tractor owner messed up. If Kubota told this guy sorry, I would not view this as a wrong. Same thing if this happened to a Deere or NH.
Major structural failure on L4610 - ouch !!
- Thread starter rbargeron
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grainger12002
Platinum Member
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Well: I will go out on a limb here and say if it were mine(and its not) I would be very dissappointed with this failure. I certainly dont know the circumstances behind this break but it is very serious. If I just spent that much money I would want it right. I hope Kubota makes some sort of gesture in good faith to help this tractor owner out reagrdless of what they admit. Just my opinion.
Poppa
Gold Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Well: I will go out on a limb here and say if it were mine(and its not) I would be very dissappointed with this failure. I certainly dont know the circumstances behind this break but it is very serious. If I just spent that much money I would want it right. I hope Kubota makes some sort of gesture in good faith to help this tractor owner out reagrdless of what they admit. Just my opinion. )</font>
grainger, I don't think anyone is discounting the seriousness of the failure. In fact, it is the seriousness of the failure that has elicited such a large amount of feedback. However, I also have to agree with your statement that we DON'T know what actually happened. The sheer enormity of the failure is suggestive of either a major manufacturing defect or a major mis-use of the tractor.
If the answer lies anywhere in the manufacturing then yes, it would be nice for Kubota to step up to the plate regardless of the warranty situation. If on the other hand the cause is major mis-use then I think it is ridiculous for anyone to expect Kubota to do anything.
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out and I hope a satisfactory solution can be met for all involved.
Mike
grainger, I don't think anyone is discounting the seriousness of the failure. In fact, it is the seriousness of the failure that has elicited such a large amount of feedback. However, I also have to agree with your statement that we DON'T know what actually happened. The sheer enormity of the failure is suggestive of either a major manufacturing defect or a major mis-use of the tractor.
If the answer lies anywhere in the manufacturing then yes, it would be nice for Kubota to step up to the plate regardless of the warranty situation. If on the other hand the cause is major mis-use then I think it is ridiculous for anyone to expect Kubota to do anything.
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out and I hope a satisfactory solution can be met for all involved.
Mike
Bobm
Member
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Polecat – Glad you enjoyed the overview – thanx for your private post!
One more safety item I forgot to mention…and SAFETY is the name of the game when horsing around in the woods. There are a few vendors who specialize in setting 4WD utility tractors up for woods use. Try visiting http://www.addingtonequipment.com/guards.html for a good example. While a tractor set up strictly for woods use is great (albeit a bit costly), most part time junior loggers wish for less confinement, more versatility and less cost. Conversely, ever price a real hospital visit or consider how much you would pay for complete use of an arm or two!
In lieu of a professional forestry retrofit, anyone considering a 3PH winch ought to give consideration to back side protection. A good solution to backside protection (also excellent if bush-hogging in rough stuff) is to “attach” (no welding, cutting, or drilling on ROPS! – use radiator hose clamps or muffler U clamps) expanded steel mesh to the entire inside portion of your ROPS. This mesh, combined with a stout diamond plate steel (or even reinforced aluminum) sun shade (with strong internal support… or even front support coming down to loader uprights) makes for a good setup protecting against lots of nasty backside events and also from widow-makers falling from the forest canopy. I personally know of three good folks who are no longer with us due to falling branches that had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LOGGING AT HAND. That’s right, pure “happenstance”…wrong place at the wrong time… shoulda stayed in bed type of thing. Very unfortunate and very, very traumatic for all parties involved.
Refer back to items #2 & #4 in my original post, and then check out the “store bought” protection that can be had with your new winch by visiting http://www.valby.biz/newpage22.htm The Farmi screen in the pic costs less than $250 – smaller models cost less. My badly broken arm (logging accident ’88, btw I was back fully 310 feet from “the action”… an ash branch 7 inches in diameter and 13 feet long flew that far from where a tree was being felled – wouldn’t have believed it if I wasn’t there firsthand!) cost $7925. Yep, I was wearing hardhat and all the other stuff – just didn’t matter – too much energy involved. But see, now I’m starting to rant…
I believe other manufacturers offer similar screens – but anyone considering a winch ought to be looking at Farmi’s anyway. In my humble opinion Farmi’s are the best far and away – certainly the most cost effective over the long haul.
Moral: STAY SAFE in the woods. It’s a jungle out there……..
One more safety item I forgot to mention…and SAFETY is the name of the game when horsing around in the woods. There are a few vendors who specialize in setting 4WD utility tractors up for woods use. Try visiting http://www.addingtonequipment.com/guards.html for a good example. While a tractor set up strictly for woods use is great (albeit a bit costly), most part time junior loggers wish for less confinement, more versatility and less cost. Conversely, ever price a real hospital visit or consider how much you would pay for complete use of an arm or two!
In lieu of a professional forestry retrofit, anyone considering a 3PH winch ought to give consideration to back side protection. A good solution to backside protection (also excellent if bush-hogging in rough stuff) is to “attach” (no welding, cutting, or drilling on ROPS! – use radiator hose clamps or muffler U clamps) expanded steel mesh to the entire inside portion of your ROPS. This mesh, combined with a stout diamond plate steel (or even reinforced aluminum) sun shade (with strong internal support… or even front support coming down to loader uprights) makes for a good setup protecting against lots of nasty backside events and also from widow-makers falling from the forest canopy. I personally know of three good folks who are no longer with us due to falling branches that had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LOGGING AT HAND. That’s right, pure “happenstance”…wrong place at the wrong time… shoulda stayed in bed type of thing. Very unfortunate and very, very traumatic for all parties involved.
Refer back to items #2 & #4 in my original post, and then check out the “store bought” protection that can be had with your new winch by visiting http://www.valby.biz/newpage22.htm The Farmi screen in the pic costs less than $250 – smaller models cost less. My badly broken arm (logging accident ’88, btw I was back fully 310 feet from “the action”… an ash branch 7 inches in diameter and 13 feet long flew that far from where a tree was being felled – wouldn’t have believed it if I wasn’t there firsthand!) cost $7925. Yep, I was wearing hardhat and all the other stuff – just didn’t matter – too much energy involved. But see, now I’m starting to rant…
I believe other manufacturers offer similar screens – but anyone considering a winch ought to be looking at Farmi’s anyway. In my humble opinion Farmi’s are the best far and away – certainly the most cost effective over the long haul.
Moral: STAY SAFE in the woods. It’s a jungle out there……..
OP
rbargeron
Elite Member
I should make it clear to everyone that the owner doesn't hold anyone responsible for this but himself. He feels pretty bad about it and he does not say he thinks the tractor was defective.
I still don't know all the details of what happened - but I do know a little more than earlier. The 3-pt hitch logging winch was raised and the skidding load was drawn up close (maybe too close?) . The cable was the on upper pully, and not on the lower one. The tractor was moving forward, went up over a hump and when the front wheels went down off the other side the leverage was too much and the center link broke out.
What we still don't know is exactly how big the load was, how tight it was pulled up, how high the winch was, etc. If somebody gets away with something like this, it's called using the tractor hard. If they don't and the tractor breaks, should it be automatically classified as abuse? Let him who has never overloaded his machinery point the first finger. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Kubota may not have any obligation to help, but it would be great if they did.
I still don't know all the details of what happened - but I do know a little more than earlier. The 3-pt hitch logging winch was raised and the skidding load was drawn up close (maybe too close?) . The cable was the on upper pully, and not on the lower one. The tractor was moving forward, went up over a hump and when the front wheels went down off the other side the leverage was too much and the center link broke out.
What we still don't know is exactly how big the load was, how tight it was pulled up, how high the winch was, etc. If somebody gets away with something like this, it's called using the tractor hard. If they don't and the tractor breaks, should it be automatically classified as abuse? Let him who has never overloaded his machinery point the first finger. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Kubota may not have any obligation to help, but it would be great if they did.
Poncho
Gold Member
Yep... it would be great if Kubota helped out... but then would that be twisted and wrapped around on them in the future as a liability issue by a lawyer and someone else using a tractor possibly beyond it's intended purpose, where a maiming or death is involved? One would like to see Kubota help out, but to be honest... I'd be extremely surprised. Please keep us posted!!
JerryG
Super Member
I will more than likely get a lot of grief for this, but Kubota has been progressively degrading the design of the lift area on the rear of the L's. My in-laws just bought a L4630, about a month ago and I couldn't believe how thin the metal was and where the third arm was attached. Just look at were the third arm is attached, it is not attached to the transmission case but rather the the top. Where the third arm is attached is just two pieces of what appears to be 3/16 pieces of angle. Nothing in the area is what I would view a robust. As more and more people buy compacts to use just on week ends and as a hobby, the manufactures will continue to cheapen or weaken some areas to save money. If just one in hundred break, they may view it a acceptable, because that is the one in a hundred that is really worked and they will make more money on the other 99. Don't flame me on this, just compare the older ones to the newer ones like I did. I would say the same things no matter what brand that I saw it happen to. Besides the better each company builds its tractors, the more competition and that is good for us as consumers.
Poppa
Gold Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ... If somebody gets away with something like this, it's called using the tractor hard. If they don't and the tractor breaks, should it be automatically classified as abuse? Let him who has never overloaded his machinery point the first finger...)</font>
No Fingerpointing here, I have broken enough things, from my own abuse/hard-use that I wouldn't dare call that kettle black. I only meant that we didn't have enough info to make a decision either way in regards to your friend's actions.
As far as defining abuse:hard-use. read the thread in the New Holland owning/operating section about the "Operator from Hell". Guy named Jesse, discusses his father-in-law's USE of his tractors. If you ever wonder if you are abusing your tractor, think about what Jesse's FIL has done and if you compare then STOP!!!, you are abusive. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Mike
No Fingerpointing here, I have broken enough things, from my own abuse/hard-use that I wouldn't dare call that kettle black. I only meant that we didn't have enough info to make a decision either way in regards to your friend's actions.
As far as defining abuse:hard-use. read the thread in the New Holland owning/operating section about the "Operator from Hell". Guy named Jesse, discusses his father-in-law's USE of his tractors. If you ever wonder if you are abusing your tractor, think about what Jesse's FIL has done and if you compare then STOP!!!, you are abusive. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Mike
slowzuki
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Funny, my view of it was the upper link had been beefed on the 30's, especially by moving to external cylinders. The angle iron I thought was nice as I'd prefer to tear out some angle that tear a chunk out of a large casting.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( progressively degrading the design of the lift area on the rear of the L's. )</font>
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( progressively degrading the design of the lift area on the rear of the L's. )</font>
OP
rbargeron
Elite Member
Jerry - you'll get zero grief from me. The "L3" Kubotas (L-xx50) were very robust - much heavier than current models with similar horsepower. I'm a broken record on this point (anyone remember what records sound like when cracked and only held together by the label ?? ) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif