Making hay with 30hp tractor

[flusher]

You can do it. People have used small tractors like a Farmall Super A to pull a 2-twine small square baler like a JD 14T or like the one I have--a Massey Ferguson 124.

Here's what I use on my 10 acres (flat pasture)

Baler--MF124 2-twine small squares - $2000 (bought it right out of the field-previous owner baled 30 acres the day before)

Sicklebar mower--MF 31 (7 ft)- $550 at auction plus $200 new parts

Rake--JD 350 pto driven, 3pt hitch style - $800

Here's a YouTube video showing a Farmall Super A operating a small square baler. The baler sequence starts around the 5 minute mark in the video.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvz8-Sw1ntA]FARMALL Super A - YouTube[/ame]

Pretty impressive considering the Super A has about 16 pto hp:thumbsup:. I would guess the fellow in the video has an over running clutch (ORC) installed in the pto drive line since the rear pto is driven directly off the transmisson.

You should have no trouble haying with your 30 hp tractor.

Good luck

 

[Doyle670]

You can do it. People have used small tractors like a Farmall Super A to pull a 2-twine small square baler like a JD 14T or like the one I have--a Massey Ferguson 124.

Here's what I use on my 10 acres (flat pasture)

Baler--MF124 2-twine small squares - $2000 (bought it right out of the field-previous owner baled 30 acres the day before)

Sicklebar mower--MF 31 (7 ft)- $550 at auction plus $200 new parts

Rake--JD 350 pto driven, 3pt hitch style - $800

Those prices aren't far off from what they go for at the auction near me.

 

[Doyle670]

Here's a YouTube video showing a Farmall Super A operating a small square baler. The baler sequence starts around the 5 minute mark in the video.

That is impressive. I looked at quite a few videos of baling on youtube, but never seen that one. There was an 8n with a new holland baler on youtube that was also pulling a wagon...and doing a heck of a job too.

 

[piller]

Yes you can make hay with a 30hp tractor. If you have time and want to you can make hay manually with a scythe and a rake, or you could use a horse drawn implement, or ...

Now, I'm going to suggest that you don't make hay. Look at a real hay budget analysis and you will find that you can buy hay for less than you can make it.

If you buy hay and feed it to your cows on your farm you will increase the fertility of your land, because you are bringing in nutrients and minerals.

Fence in your hay field, double the number of cows you have, rotate the cows between your fields, buy the hay if you need to.

 

[Doyle670]

Yes you can make hay with a 30hp tractor. If you have time and want to you can make hay manually with a scythe and a rake, or you could use a horse drawn implement, or ...

Now, I'm going to suggest that you don't make hay. Look at a real hay budget analysis and you will find that you can buy hay for less than you can make it.

If you buy hay and feed it to your cows on your farm you will increase the fertility of your land, because you are bringing in nutrients and minerals.

Fence in your hay field, double the number of cows you have, rotate the cows between your fields, buy the hay if you need to.

Well the problem here is the price of hay is very high. If I buy the 600 or so I need i'm at a cost of around $2000. I have free use of the 13 acres down the road that I could put my manure on(which right now I don't have a spot to put it). Then if I could get even 1,000 bales off of it keep my 600 and sell 400 at $3.50/bale, that's $1400 profit instead of paying $2000. That's a difference of $3400/year. So it would take a year for the equipment to pay for itself, then i'll have fuel, supplies and general maintenance costs, so by the 3rd year it will be more than worth it. I understand i'll have time and labor associated which my father is eager for and my son is getting near the age when he can help and loves to.

Or keep all the hay for myself and triple my number of cows which will increase my overall dollar.

As you can see it appears that I have alot more options if I do hay myself.

 

[flusher]

Those prices aren't far off from what they go for at the auction near me.

Righto.

You really want to check out very carefully any baler you're considering buying.

Stay away from balers that have been "field stored" for any length of time unless you or someone you trust with baler experience can estimate the cost of getting it running properly. Your best bet is with older balers that have been carefully serviced and shedded.

Parts for some old balers can be expensive and hard to find. That's why you often get advice to stick with used JD or NH balers. For example, the linings on slip clutch on the pto drive of my MF124 baler were shot. Fortunately I found new parts from an MF dealer in Maine and the price was reasonable.

Get the operator, service and parts manuals for whatever baler you finally purchase. Setting up the knotters is a lot easier with that documentation.

 

[Doyle670]

Righto.

You really want to check out very carefully any baler you're considering buying.

Stay away from balers that have been "field stored" for any length of time unless you or someone you trust with baler experience can estimate the cost of getting it running properly. Your best bet is with older balers that have been carefully serviced and shedded.

Parts for some old balers can be expensive and hard to find. That's why you often get advice to stick with used JD or NH balers. For example, the linings on slip clutch on the pto drive of my MF124 baler were shot. Fortunately I found new parts from an MF dealer in Maine and the price was reasonable.

Get the operator, service and parts manuals for whatever baler you finally purchase. Setting up the knotters is a lot easier with that documentation.

Great info, thanks again.

 

[Doyle670]

Not to hijack my own thread but what's your opinions on using a 1 row corn chopper with a 30hp tractor.

I plant corn every year(about 1/6 of an acre), usually to sell as sweet corn, and then let the cows eat/trample down the stalks. I have in the past cut the stalks by hand and sent them thru a chipper to then store and feed out a little here and there.

I have the equipment to plow and plant but am also considering growing between .5-1 acre of corn. My problem is cutting by hand. If I could run a chopper and not pull a wagon, do I have enough HP? I would chop and blow into an open wagon pulled by my dad's tractor or my truck. Again it would be all perfectly flat ground.

We have used my dad's(he's 3rd generation owner) TO20 to chop hay stationary after planting grass seed. It worked pretty well, and would bog a little with big wads of hay. Now the TO20 is around 25hp at the pto. I'd be looking to chop the .5-1acre of cow corn plus the leftover stalks of my sweet corn. Storage is not an issue, i'd use my method i've used for the past few years.

The cows absolutely love a lb or 2 each of the silage everyday.

 

[rankrank1]

According to Tractor Data, your Ford is almost exactly the same weight as a Farmall H and it tested at 26 PTO HP, the same as the belt horsepower of he H....

Tractor data is not even a remotely reliable source of information - it is very frequently wrong as is this case.

A Ford 1900 weighs 2589 lbs empty or maybe 2900 lbs or so with full tanks of fuel, oil, hydraulic oil, operator, etc. In short it is a compact tractor albeit towards the larger end of the compact spectrum.

A farmall H weighed in at 5550 lbs when tested at Nebraska tests in 1939.

 

[flusher]

Great info, thanks again.

One of these days I'm going to hook up that MF124 baler to my 1951 Farmall Super A just for grins:laughing:.

MF124 baler and my 2008 Mahindra 5525 (54 hp engine, 45 hp pto)




The 1951 Farmall Super A vs the 5525

 

[rankrank1]

Well I've found a bunch of topics for the older tractors but the problem is I know they changed how they rated the hp on newer tractors. I couldn't find any topics where a newer(>70's) 30hp tractor was running a baler.

I guess I really just have to try it out. Worst case scenario, I'll have to buy a bigger tractor. Hopefully not.

Yes the ratings did change around 1959 or so when belt testing was eliminated in favor of PTO shaft testing. It does make the comparison's slightly different but not drastic. Loosely translated, a tractor that tested at a given number pre 1959 belt hp would test out a hp or two higher on a PTO shaft test since belt inefficiency and slippage are eliminated.

My Kubota is a 1978 model. The topics are out there in regards to newer small hp tractors baling, but they will all be using old balers because as already mentioned in my previous post newer balers from the mainstream manufacturers require more hp to their increased capacity. New Mini-balers spcifically designed for mini-tractors are too expensive for a hobby operation.

You will not have to buy a different tractor if you carefully choose the proper sized baler to put behind it. Think of it as towing a trailer with a 1/2 ton pick-up with a V6 engine as compared to a 1 ton pick-up with a turbo diesel. Either truck will succesfully pull a trailer as long as the trailer is properly sized to the truck.

 

[5030]

You can make hay with a forecart, 2 Percherons and a Wisconsin gas engine if so inclined. The Amish do it all the time.

My comment is. For 2 grand in equipment, bailer, rake and mower, you'll be getting someone else's discards, use up or close to. You'll be spending more time wrenching than doing anything else and bailers, especially square bailers when the get old, need lots of TLC and knowledge because to get them to run takes experience...and dedicated wrenching.

Your problem will be, you'll get it cut (hopefully), raked and ready to bail and the bailer won't tie and there is rain coming.

Do yourself a favor and avoid the grief (of used cheap equipment that breaks all the time) and contract it or run it on shares with someone that has the equipment and the knowledge of maintaining it.

I'm not saying you can't. I'm saying there is a definite learning curve associated with bailers, especially small square bailers of vintage age and that's what you'll wind up with for a 2 grand investment.

Been there and done that. I run new stuff, especially bailers both square and round. Way more than 2 grand but other than grease and cleaning, no grief and it gets done.:confused2:

 

[Doyle670]

You can make hay with a forecart, 2 Percherons and a Wisconsin gas engine if so inclined. The Amish do it all the time.

My comment is. For 2 grand in equipment, bailer, rake and mower, you'll be getting someone else's discards, use up or close to. You'll be spending more time wrenching than doing anything else and bailers, especially square bailers when the get old, need lots of TLC and knowledge because to get them to run takes experience...and dedicated wrenching.

Your problem will be, you'll get it cut (hopefully), raked and ready to bail and the bailer won't tie and there is rain coming.

Do yourself a favor and avoid the grief (of used cheap equipment that breaks all the time) and contract it or run it on shares with someone that has the equipment and the knowledge of maintaining it.

I'm not saying you can't. I'm saying there is a definite learning curve associated with bailers, especially small square bailers of vintage age and that's what you'll wind up with for a 2 grand investment.

Been there and done that. I run new stuff, especially bailers both square and round. Way more than 2 grand but other than grease and cleaning, no grief and it gets done.:confused2:

Good points, since farming near me is pretty much gone, contracting or having another farmer do it is almost impossible. I'm not that old but when I was growing up 20 years ago we had 60+ dairies in our county. We are now down to 3. Farming is just dieing a slow death here. There is still quite a few beef farms but really only a 2-3 that aren't considered hobby farms.

You are definitely right that the square baler is my biggest risk. Sickle mowers and rakes are easy to work on and normally very dependable, especially because you can buy alot of backup parts that tend to break for pretty cheap. As for the baler any time i've ever had an issue(while helping other farmers, uncles) is with the knotters. But then again my uncle had a $5,000 baler that would work fine for acres and acres then have knotting issues for an entire day.

One advantage I will have is that i'm doing hay on such a small scale. I am already planning on doing an acre or two at a time. For a few reasons, 1) the weather, 2) using new to me(old equipment), 3) using smaller equipment and 4) having to handle square bales by hand.

Heck if I could average an acre or 2 a week, I'd be more than satisfied.



What's your opinion on my earlier thread?

Not to hijack my own thread but what's your opinions on using a 1 row corn chopper with a 30hp tractor.

I plant corn every year(about 1/6 of an acre), usually to sell as sweet corn, and then let the cows eat/trample down the stalks. I have in the past cut the stalks by hand and sent them thru a chipper to then store and feed out a little here and there.

I have the equipment to plow and plant but am also considering growing between .5-1 acre of corn. My problem is cutting by hand. If I could run a chopper and not pull a wagon, do I have enough HP? I would chop and blow into an open wagon pulled by my dad's tractor or my truck. Again it would be all perfectly flat ground.

We have used my dad's(he's 3rd generation owner) TO20 to chop hay stationary after planting grass seed. It worked pretty well, and would bog a little with big wads of hay. Now the TO20 is around 25hp at the pto. I'd be looking to chop the .5-1acre of cow corn plus the leftover stalks of my sweet corn. Storage is not an issue, i'd use my method i've used for the past few years.

The cows absolutely love a lb or 2 each of the silage everyday.

 

[CTPhil]

Your problem will be, you'll get it cut (hopefully), raked and ready to bail and the bailer won't tie and there is rain coming.

I thought that was the definition of farming...

My FIL baling with his old VAC...

 

[DJ54]

Not to hijack my own thread but what's your opinions on using a 1 row corn chopper with a 30hp tractor.

I plant corn every year(about 1/6 of an acre), usually to sell as sweet corn, and then let the cows eat/trample down the stalks. I have in the past cut the stalks by hand and sent them thru a chipper to then store and feed out a little here and there.

I have the equipment to plow and plant but am also considering growing between .5-1 acre of corn. My problem is cutting by hand. If I could run a chopper and not pull a wagon, do I have enough HP? I would chop and blow into an open wagon pulled by my dad's tractor or my truck. Again it would be all perfectly flat ground.

We have used my dad's(he's 3rd generation owner) TO20 to chop hay stationary after planting grass seed. It worked pretty well, and would bog a little with big wads of hay. Now the TO20 is around 25hp at the pto. I'd be looking to chop the .5-1acre of cow corn plus the leftover stalks of my sweet corn. Storage is not an issue, i'd use my method i've used for the past few years.

The cows absolutely love a lb or 2 each of the silage everyday.

We used a Case ensilage chopper like pictured, years back to chop sweet corn, and feed to our steers. In fact, I just sold it last week to some Amish boys, who spotted it out by the barn. It is identical to the one pictured.

Being cutting it is what you are trying to get away from, it may not be your cup of tea. It' not that bad if you use a regular corn knife. I could cut enough for a feeding in maybe 10 minutes, and fill the carry-all, with 30" stakes on the Farmall Super C, in less than 10 minutes.

Had it belted up to my BN Farmall, and it ran it great, throwing in 6 or so stalks at a time. Just put the starter pipe, and the gooseneck on, and blew it over the fence, into a feeder.

Didn't take them long to figure it out. The "boys" would be standing at the fence, when I was going out to cut..., LOL...

I gave $35 for it in about '79... Used it off and on for 30 years, and doubled my money + last week... They got a deal, and I got it out of here, as I have no use for it anymore, so we were both happy.

 

[wmonroe]

I understand i'll have time and labor associated which my father is eager for and my son is getting near the age when he can help and loves to.

Having grown up helping my dad bale hay, i would say being able to work with your dad and also teach your son about baling hay/hard work would be worth it on its own. I would say (based on my experience with old equipment) some years will be good others will be a loss. I remember having times when something on one of the pieces of equipment would break and then it would rain and so on and so on and then the hay was ruined.

If you can afford new or newer equipment that is great, i'd rather buy brand new too. However sometimes used equipment that will need some work to keep going is all that is an option and it can be made to work.

As a side note i'm planning on using my dads equipment to bale hay on my property this coming year, it might work great or might be a complete failure, it's just part of the fun.

Good luck

 

[Martian]

I would say yes with small square bales. Just take a lot of time. I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[RobertBrown]

There was hay made long before there was tractors to cut, rake, and bale it.
If you want a hay operation, go for it! You won't bale it as fast as the guy with the big tractor but you'll make it sure as ****.

 

[strum456]

Your tractor willl do fine slowly and on the flat. I have been pushed down hills by my baler/wagon on much heavier tractors. Just dont put yourself and everyone on the wagon in danger by baling hills and you probably be happy with the tractor you have.

 

[MHarryE]

Tractor data is not even a remotely reliable source of information - it is very frequently wrong as is this case.

A Ford 1900 weighs 2589 lbs empty or maybe 2900 lbs or so with full tanks of fuel, oil, hydraulic oil, operator, etc. In short it is a compact tractor albeit towards the larger end of the compact spectrum.

A farmall H weighed in at 5550 lbs when tested at Nebraska tests in 1939.

Dad was an I-H dealer from 1938 - 1954. I pulled out our 1950 Service Manual. Shipping weight for a Farmall H was 3760 pounds. The book spec was 27.5 belt horsepower. I don't know about the accuracy on the Ford but they are darn close on the H.