Manual vs Hydro Transmissions

mjncad · Jan 28, 2007

My JD 4200 HST is my first tractor and I am glad I went HST. I do a lot of loader work, and my irregular shaped lot with the HOASS mandated trees requires a lot of direction changes. I can't imagine trying to do close quarters work in reverse and fumbling for all the levers and pedals required of a manual tranny. The infinite speed range makes it easy to tailor the speed to the chore at hand, and working close to the house is not as scary as it would be with a manual.

When I bought Thumper (lawn tractor), I made sure to go with an HST for the same reasons.

Now if you are talking cars and trucks...give me a manual transmission any day over an automatic. My car and truck are both manuals.

Soundguy · Jan 29, 2007

mjncad said:
I can't imagine trying to do close quarters work in reverse and fumbling for all the levers and pedals required of a manual tranny. ....Now if you are talking cars and trucks...give me a manual transmission any day over an automatic. My car and truck are both manuals.

Hmm.. how many 'levers and pedals' do you think a gear tractor has compaired to your car / truck? You think there might be 2-3 clutches 5 gear shift levers??.. Aside from a range selector.. which you would probably be leaving in low for close up work.. I'm guessing that leaves you with an accelerator .. a brake.. a gear shift, and a clutch... Sounds ominously similar to your manual car / truck... (grin)

Glad you l ike your HST.

Soundguy

mjarrels · Jan 29, 2007

I have both and for continous all day operation, I'll take the gear tractor over the hydro... put it in gear and ride without having to play with a petal.

mark

JerryG · Jan 29, 2007

patrick_g said:
About the loss of power due to having an HST...

I have written on this before but feel inclined to repeat myself. Maybe it is just Kubota's SUPERIOR engineering...
B-U-T... My tractor is rated for 39.5 HP at the PTO. Now, if I had bought the more efficient GEARED tranny on the same model tractor I would have had 40 HP at the PTO. OOOOOOH I'm being robbed of 1/2 of a HP!!!

Pat

It's not the PTO hp that is effected the most. It is the drawbar horsepower. That is the reason that manufactures seldom post drawbar hp any more. With a hydro the pull power (drawbar pull) takes a big drop. The PTO goes straight though the unit more or less, the hydro hasn't got much to do with it.

Doc_Bob · Jan 29, 2007

mjarrels said:
I have both and for continous all day operation, I'll take the gear tractor over the hydro... put it in gear and ride without having to play with a petal.

mark

Mark, I have a NH TN70A 8x8 with power shuttle. I play with the foot throttle all the time. Saves me fuel, wear and tear.
Bob

Doc_Bob · Jan 29, 2007

JerryG said:
It's not the PTO hp that is effected the most. It is the drawbar horsepower. That is the reason that manufactures seldom post drawbar hp any more. With a hydro the pull power (drawbar pull) takes a big drop. The PTO goes straight though the unit more or less, the hydro hasn't got much to do with it.

what is drawbar power???
Bob

Z-Michigan · Jan 29, 2007

Doc_Bob said:
what is drawbar power???
Bob

Drawbar power is basically how much work can be done by the tractor's physical ability to pull something heavy against a resistance. The Nebraska tractor tests (google this) post this data, in addition to PTO hp, for most tractors above compacts. This is highly relevant for plowing, discing, box blading, or other ground engaging work, but not important for mowing, FEL work, etc. Drawbar power is affected not just by engine power but also by tractor weight and traction - a heavy tractor will often provide more drawbar pull with the same engine hp compared to a lighter tractor. Similarly, a 4wd tractor will generally provide more pull than a 2wd tractor of the same weight and engine hp.

_RaT_ · Jan 29, 2007

patrick_g said:
RaT, Doin' fine thanks. Raisin' a dozen black calves, mostly Angus (maybe a touch of Limousin or ???.) Pidling on the house projects. Surviving the ice storm. Gettin' my but kicked trying to download digital video into computer.

Still working on my interior storm shutters. (Sore back, darn things are HEAVY.)

Hope all is going well with yoiu this new year of 2007.

PAT

Glad to see you around. I stop by a few times a week. Did you ever get your box scraper and hydraulic ripper thing straightened out from years ago? Its funny to see the HST gear stuff so frequently. Same thing and mostly the same old players.

JerryG · Jan 29, 2007

Z-Michigan,
That was a pretty good definition, except that I do have one exception to it. The front end loader part. The more power available at the drawbar the more power that is available to push with the front end loader. Basically, drawbar pull the way it works out is a usable number for anything that is pushed or pulled by the tractor. When drawbar pull first came into use there wasn't any loaders. If there had been, I don't know what word they would have came up with for that type of measurement.

Z-Michigan · Jan 29, 2007

JerryG said:
Z-Michigan,
That was a pretty good definition, except that I do have one exception to it. The front end loader part. The more power available at the drawbar the more power that is available to push with the front end loader. Basically, drawbar pull the way it works out is a usable number for anything that is pushed or pulled by the tractor. When drawbar pull first came into use there wasn't any loaders. If there had been, I don't know what word they would have came up with for that type of measurement.

Thanks, and good point. I agree to the extent you're digging with the FEL or pushing into something with resistance. If you're pushing into fluffy snow or dry mulch then I think the difference is small, though more drawbar hp is always better.