Massey 240 hydraulics question - adding a mower with funky hydraulics?

[Orchardist]

Greetings from France!

We purchased a Massey 240 with a FEL and wondered how to connect up a HUMUS AFLR 2500 mower. It is a special mower for orchards and has a swing out arm for mowing inbetween the trees. This requires a single effect spool and a pressure free return. The mower has a disc with cutter underneath, a sensor in front of the disc actions a hydraulic pistion to make the assembly swing back and forth.

John Deere 4520 mit Humus AFLR 2500 beim Solarpark Mähen Teil 2 - YouTube

There is a selection box under the seat. With the small lever in position to the right it selects the front end loader circuit with 3 (?) spool valves.

In the first photos the middle lever controls the up motion of the FEL and is single acting, downward motion is not controlled. The lever on the right controls the articulated forks and is a double acting valve. The lever on the left I am not sure what it does...one cable runs back to the selection box under the seat and the other cable runs back to a point underneath the steering wheel.

When I select the middle position on the box under the seat I can control the 3pt via the standard levers to the right of the seat. Is it possible to connect the mower so I can have both control of the swinging arm and also be able to raise and lower the 3pt to reverse the tractor quickly? The mower has two male connectors and 3/8 cable.

I am wondering how to connect the mower really. The nearest tractor dealer is a long way from myself!

Regards and many thanks in advance,

Rich

 

[J_J]

If the spools on the valve are DA spools, then they have plugged one of the work ports for the SA cyl.

If that is true, then you should be able to replace the SA cyl with a DA cyl and use the DA spool for pressure up/down.

If it is a stacked valve, and using an SA spool and you know the manufacturer, then you can replace the SA spool with a DA spool.

 

[Orchardist]

Hi JJ

I was hoping you might reply. Your reputation goes quite some distance...I was recommended to write on this forum by someone here in France.

I attached a few more photos of the Kontak spool block. In fact, I was mistaken!

There are 3 double spools and another block on the end (closest to the camera) which must act as a feed and return. I guess it allows the fluid to flow through the system when the levers are all in neutral position.

The first double spool block is not used.

The second is a double but only acts as a single to control the FEL lifting.

The third is double acting and controls the forks.

Is it possible to add a T joint to the spool block input hose and let that feed the mower? I could then connect a return to the block under the seat?

 

[J_J]

No, you don't want a tee in the series circuit.

All returns can be teed together as long as it does not add to much back pressure.

What is feeding the mower now?

If you want power up and down on the second spool, then you will need a DA cyl and use both work ports on that spool.

It also looks like you have work port reliefs on the work ports.

If the mower is hyd driven, you can feed that hyd motor using the unused spool valve.

Just add a double relief across the hyd motor, or add a motor spool.

 

[Orchardist]

I received both the tractor and mower just recently. The tractor came from the UK and the mower from Germany, resulting in a crash course in hydraulics and a couple other issues like a leaking steering ram and lighting rewires. We are just starting our farm here in Brittany.

So I need to create a new loop. Where might I find this PB port? Is it the block under the seat or on the last spool valve as a continuation of the block? It is late here in France so forgive for being a little slow, and this is without any red wine or cider.

For the moment the second spool controls the FEL but I am happy with that function for the moment. In the future I might change it to DA.

Regarding the work port reliefs, are they the heads that can be adjusted in front of the levers? I had a search around to find out what they were but couldnt find much accept for a distinction between work and pump ports.

 

[J_J]

I can't see the other end of the valve, it may have a PB port in case you wanted another valve.

You really don't need another valve to control the mower as you have an unused spool that is plugged on the valve.

In an open center hyd circuit, all valve are in series, and to add valves, you need a PB port on the supply valve, and a PB port on the added valve if it is not the last valve in the series path.

You can insert a hyd gage in the cyl lines and read the pressure, and if you need a lower pressure than the main valve, you would set the work port relief for the pressure you want. What the work port reliefs are for, is that if the load on the cyl is excessive, the valve relief could not handle the spike of hyd power generated by the load.

You also have a hyd valve under the seat with capped ports.

 

[Orchardist]

Hi JJ

I get you. I can connect the mower to the emtpy spool valve, however to run it needs to be in 'constant pumping mode' So I would need to tie the lever with elastic so it was fully open all the time.

With regards a return, I would then require to connect the mower to which port? I am thinking of hooking it up to the same port on the tractor body as the return line from the valve block, next to the gear change levers. So I would have a loop, valve block -> mower -> return port -> valve block

The mower needs 5bar so I will buy a gauge and measure the pressure.

Thanks

Rich

I can't see the other end of the valve, it may have a PB port in case you wanted another valve.

You really don't need another valve to control the mower as you have an unused spool that is plugged on the valve.

In an open center hyd circuit, all valve are in series, and to add valves, you need a PB port on the supply valve, and a PB port on the added valve if it is not the last valve in the series path.

You can insert a hyd gage in the cyl lines and read the pressure, and if you need a lower pressure than the main valve, you would set the work port relief for the pressure you want. What the work port reliefs are for, is that if the load on the cyl is excessive, the valve relief could not handle the spike of hyd power generated by the load.

You also have a hyd valve under the seat with capped ports.

 

[babu pal]

I get you. I can connect the mower to the emtpy spool valve, however to run it needs to be in 'constant pumping mode' So I would need to tie the lever with elastic so it was fully open all the time.

With regards a return, I would then require to connect the mower to which port? I am thinking of hooking it up to the same port on the tractor body as the return line from the valve block, next to the gear change levers. So I would have a loop, valve block -> mower -> return port -> valve block

The mower needs 5bar so I will buy a gauge and measure the pressure.

 

[J_J]

5 bar is only 72.5 psi. The pressure should be between 1500 to 3000 psi, or 103 bar to 206 bar

Run the hyd motor out return hose to tank unless you want to reverse it for some reason.

To use the hyd motor as a reversing motor, connect the hyd motor to the A/B ports on the spool, but also install a relief valve across the motor.

You should install a double relief valve across that motor in case the lever ever springs back and the motor is spinning fast with lots of centrifugal force/ weight.

Bungee the lever or find a detent kit for your valve spool.

Is the valve a stacked valve? If so, you can replace or add to the stack with a motor spool valve, which let the motor wind down safely.

 

[Orchardist]

Hi JJ

Doesnt look like a stacked valve, there are joins in the body.

There is an option to have control of left or right side shift. This is where the mower body can be moved offset to the tractor. This would require a double acting valve as you say with the ability to reverse direction of the fluid. That could be the next step but for now I am just looking to get the swingarm actuated, that just requires a continuous pumping, singe spool and return to tank.

So I will connect a line from the 'out' of the spare spool valve to the input hose of the mower. So when I pull and hold the lever to the out position the fluid will flow to the mower?

I will connect the output hose of the mower to the tank input port just next to the gear change lever. This will be a T fitting to go with the return line from the spool valve. Unless there is another return port?

Bungee will do for now to fix the lever. I proper detent kit will be purchased in time or perhaps a completely new valve for this machine.

Thanks in advance!

Rich

5 bar is only 72.5 psi. The pressure should be between 1500 to 3000 psi, or 103 bar to 206 bar

Run the hyd motor out return hose to tank unless you want to reverse it for some reason.

To use the hyd motor as a reversing motor, connect the hyd motor to the A/B ports on the spool, but also install a relief valve across the motor.

You should install a double relief valve across that motor in case the lever ever springs back and the motor is spinning fast with lots of centrifugal force/ weight.

Bungee the lever or find a detent kit for your valve spool.

Is the valve a stacked valve? If so, you can replace or add to the stack with a motor spool valve, which let the motor wind down safely.

 

[J_J]

If the valve has joints, and all the spools bolt together, then it is a stacked valve and additional spools can be added or replaced or removed. Just need to get the correct bolt kit.

In a stacked valve, you can mix spools like SA, motor spool, DA, three way detent, and so .

You can either return the motor OUT to tank, or use both work ports for the motor.

If you only use the A work port for the motor, then plug the B work port.

 

[Farmerford]

Rich:

Do I understand correctly? You will mount the mower on the three point hitch and two hydraulic lines are required from the tractor to the mower unit: those lines supply pressure fluid and receive return fluid from both the hydraulic motor that turns the blade and the cylinder that swings the cutter head back when the sensor touches an obstacle.

At the same time, you want to be able to raise and lower the three point hitch while the mower is operating.

As you explained, the three position selector valve under the seat controls whether hydraulic fluid flows from the pump to the three point hitch (vertical lever position) or from the pump to the front end loader (right lever position).

If that is true, then when you connect the mower to the FEL lines, in order to get hydraulic fluid to the FEL valve and then to the mower, the selector valve under the seat must be in the right position, and the TPH does not function.

You have received good advice on the connection through the FEL valve, but I wonder if the inability to simultaneously use the three point hitch will keep the mower from working the way you want.

 

[Orchardist]

Hi

Thanks for responding.

The hydraulic motor just moves the swingarm cylinder in and out, it does not move the blade.

It would be ideal to move the 3 point at the same time. Otherwise, I have to move the lever under the seat to the middle position to operate the 3 point. I'm not sure there is a way to run both at the same time unless there is a port on the hydraulic valve under the seat that I have not seen?

Rich:

Do I understand correctly? You will mount the mower on the three point hitch and two hydraulic lines are required from the tractor to the mower unit: those lines supply pressure fluid and receive return fluid from both the hydraulic motor that turns the blade and the cylinder that swings the cutter head back when the sensor touches an obstacle.

At the same time, you want to be able to raise and lower the three point hitch while the mower is operating.

As you explained, the three position selector valve under the seat controls whether hydraulic fluid flows from the pump to the three point hitch (vertical lever position) or from the pump to the front end loader (right lever position).

If that is true, then when you connect the mower to the FEL lines, in order to get hydraulic fluid to the FEL valve and then to the mower, the selector valve under the seat must be in the right position, and the TPH does not function.

You have received good advice on the connection through the FEL valve, but I wonder if the inability to simultaneously use the three point hitch will keep the mower from working the way you want.

 

[Orchardist]

I guess I could do with an operators manual...which is hard to come by!

 

[J_J]

Now that I know the hyd motor is just moving an arm IN and OUT, you will need to use both work ports.

There is probably a way to cheat the hyd system so that two valves can be used at the same time, using a splitter.

In a series hyd circuit, the first valve to use all the pump flow, will prevent any downstream valve from operating until the first function is released.

If one valve is only using, say half flow, then the other half is passed on downstream.

 

[Orchardist]

Hi

I finally found a copy of the manual.

As it turns out, I can connect directly to the small box under the seat. As it turns out:

In position 1 (lever full to the left) there are two outputs which can control two rams. However the 3 point has to be up in this instance before this can work. I imagine they added weights to the 3 point to stabilise the tractor.

In neutrual position (lever in the middle) this operates the 3 point.

In position 2 (lever to the right) this operates a simple output however the 3 point can be kept in whatever position we choose.

I will move the FEL connection from position 2 to position 1 as I do not really need to use it at the same time as the 3 point.

I will install the mower connection to position 1 and put in a return to tank.

Question, does anyone know what the R stands for on the diverter box? The french manual says Orifice R but gives no explanation.

Perhaps the only way to have both the 3 point and hydraulic actuation of the mower would be to install an auxiliary pump and distributor.

Now that I know the hyd motor is just moving an arm IN and OUT, you will need to use both work ports.

There is probably a way to cheat the hyd system so that two valves can be used at the same time, using a splitter.

In a series hyd circuit, the first valve to use all the pump flow, will prevent any downstream valve from operating until the first function is released.

If one valve is only using, say half flow, then the other half is passed on downstream.