Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects

[Fergie4608]

Well see if that worked as I am not very good with this stuff

 

[Fergie4608]

JWR I offered all that to them there is more video's of what has gone on, on my U TUbe Channel where I posted that link and I have changed the name on a few of them now so they should get looked at, I want then to replace the Tractor and I even said I would be willing to upgrade at a reasonable cost, but then all the dragging on and stuff happened.
I did warn them it was going to escalate until it gets replaced as you said its suffered so much shock load for 16 months continuously while I tried to get them to fix it, after all this we are now at 21 months old and as you said I believe the driveline is that comprimized that it cannot be repaired and they should replace it, but there is not even a call about fixing the rest of the serious faults so that is why its getting bigger and bigger daily, trouble for them the document trail makes no sense why they want to Knuckle on.
It's just stupid have a look at this Agco/Massey Ferguson 468 Review 1 Unsafe Tractor or just lethal Buyer beware. - YouTube

 

[Fergie4608]

Oh and the Front diff repair listed by the dealer is $6,220

 

[JWR]

So from the letter they are claiming that all is well and they have fixed all issues. Of course test it when you get it back and see if it really is completely fixed. Frankly, I'd probably go trade it in on some other new one myself.

Back to some of the technical issues: The whole topic of reducing loading on the front axle is pure nonsense. Your 4-in-1 bucket weighs 400kgs. That is only 880 lbs. My 2660 tractor is very much the same size and capacity as yours, just older model. My 4-in-1 bucket weighs a little over 1000 lbs -- 120 lbs more than yours -- and has never been a problem plus I often pick up a full load of mud in it while cleaning out springs (!!) OK, I do keep a 1400lb bush hog on the back all the time so I do have plenty of ballast. Mr.Hill stated that the 400kgs bucket was "too heavy for the tractor." That is bull. Not so. Silly. There is no way on this earth that a 400kgs bucket on that tractor made the rear wheels "light" even with no ballast of any kind ! That is the opposite of truth with my fake apologies to Jake Kerr. The counterweight on the rear will have a very small effect on the load on the front axle -- any junior engineering student can see the lever lengths rule out rear 3pt loading having much effect on front axle loading. Being "required" to use a rear counter weight is absurd in spite of the fact that they claim it and you agreed to the terms. The claim that lack of a counter weight on the rear "accentuated" the aggressive shuttle change is completely bull. The power shuttle either engages and disengages properly or it does not. ****, take the bucket OFF if they are claiming that causes wild lurching when using the shuttle !! It won't take long to prove that is nonsense.
Anyway, if this thing works OK when you get it back I would trade it in as soon as I could and get as far away from it as I could. For one thing, you know you don't have a competent dealer service shop -- they proved that. So what ever happens next you cannot trust them to fix it. Find a good, competent dealer and buy some other tractor from him.

 

[mapper]

Using a counterweight makes sense from a safety standpoint but does not change the front axle load at all. The amount that can be lifted with the FEL is determined by the hydraulic pressure and the cylinder size on the FEL, if the tractor is being unduly stressed by using the FEL then it was not designed correctly. If it can lift more than the weight of the tractor behind the front axle then without ballast the rear is coming off of the ground, I would assume you would notice that!
Some tractors weren't really designed for FEL use, such as the Ford 8n, and the front ends would sometimes fail (and were a real bear to steer), modern tractors that are sold with loaders as an option should be designed to handle that load, if not a loader shouldn't be an option.
My opinion is you received a lemon and then the dealer and customer support failed you big time.

 

[Fergie4608]

So from the letter they are claiming that all is well and they have fixed all issues. Of course test it when you get it back and see if it really is completely fixed. Frankly, I'd probably go trade it in on some other new one myself.

Back to some of the technical issues: The whole topic of reducing loading on the front axle is pure nonsense. Your 4-in-1 bucket weighs 400kgs. That is only 880 lbs. My 2660 tractor is very much the same size and capacity as yours, just older model. My 4-in-1 bucket weighs a little over 1000 lbs -- 120 lbs more than yours -- and has never been a problem plus I often pick up a full load of mud in it while cleaning out springs (!!) OK, I do keep a 1400lb bush hog on the back all the time so I do have plenty of ballast. Mr.Hill stated that the 400kgs bucket was "too heavy for the tractor." That is bull. Not so. Silly. There is no way on this earth that a 400kgs bucket on that tractor made the rear wheels "light" even with no ballast of any kind ! That is the opposite of truth with my fake apologies to Jake Kerr. The counterweight on the rear will have a very small effect on the load on the front axle -- any junior engineering student can see the lever lengths rule out rear 3pt loading having much effect on front axle loading. Being "required" to use a rear counter weight is absurd in spite of the fact that they claim it and you agreed to the terms. The claim that lack of a counter weight on the rear "accentuated" the aggressive shuttle change is completely bull. The power shuttle either engages and disengages properly or it does not. ****, take the bucket OFF if they are claiming that causes wild lurching when using the shuttle !! It won't take long to prove that is nonsense.
Anyway, if this thing works OK when you get it back I would trade it in as soon as I could and get as far away from it as I could. For one thing, you know you don't have a competent dealer service shop -- they proved that. So what ever happens next you cannot trust them to fix it. Find a good, competent dealer and buy some other tractor from him.

JWR, My Friend thanks so very much for all your input I have great respect for all your input, And your right in every aspect. The interesting thing is that Tractor was nearly perfect in so many ways, Power, Balance is extremely good, and I mean extremely good so just becuase a young pup and Jake is that, I have not met him but from the phone I would say very early 20's so no experience at all and that is why they threw him in to the fire as a sacrificial lamb, I am sure when it goes pair shaped he will wear allot of it, Allan is middle management and yes your absolutely on the money with your gut feeling, See here is Australia the Finance works so much more different, I can't walk away from the debt, It sounds a great idea to say keep it and either fix it or I am not paying but they have me that they could take everything and bankrupt you and that is our financial system here so the whole time they have your tractor you still have to make the payments but you can't do the work and they also know that but don't give a rats. The Tractor works now but is unsafe under any load or slope and without steering allot of the time, but all that said I can still at least do work. Its one of those funny things when you look at it where the Tractor you had with those faults was bad and it was dangerous but it actually physically could work, where as the tractor I now have is dangerous in so many other ways and now it can't do the physical work if that makes sense so which one would I want? You see this property is steep and slippery so when the rain comes, then the Tractor is actually the only thing that can get water and feed down to the Horses so that is my Problem. Look it all sounds so gloomy but you guys helping with information helps support not only my understanding of many things but it does bolster my willingness to Knuckle on and the more I get my story out there the more that Agco cannot keep turning their back, To be fair and I am a Fair person most of the time, the Tractor was good in so many ways before just with a few life threatening problems, So I am actually surprisingly not against Massey Ferguson Products, You guys state what I already knew and that is the Dealer is the real lemon I got stuck with and the crew in Tech Support Australia Are the real problem and in the future with this things may be that a big broom goes right through there and sweeps the drift wood out. Agco has spent an enormous amount of money on Public relations and building an image so I know somewhere there will be an enormous amount of care about this damage but its just an issue of time and getting to the right persons. But People like you are the real hero's of bad things like this. I know I say I would not buy another product from them when I am angry but I would love my tractor without those defects and would have that tractor in a heart beat, so its people who are to blame and not the tractor.
Thanks Again

Garry

 

[Fergie4608]

Thanks so much Mapper, Specifically their garbage about light in the back end is exactly that, I wish I could give you guys a ride on the old tractor so you could feel what it was like, forget the savage shuttle, the Balance of this tractor for loader work is as good as any Backhoe and that is saying something when you don't have all that weight out the back, I ran this machine down some steep areas working with lets just say good loads and its a rock in that straight line, Trust me I have used allot of gear and this is a Great loader platform even carrying loads way down a slope and she never ever picked her butt up even as a warning, Jake is a kid and does what the boss tells him and I don't mean that harshly, Allan would say so how did the back end feel and he would have to say light because that is what Allan wants to hear, Look he gave me a massive lecture originally on the Back Blade, the using 4 wheel Drive in loader work, and so on and so on, believe me the letter was the short version of a load of cods wallop but I was forced to sign it even though its a great work of Fantasy by someone who has no idea, I could prove my point in a heart beat if I could put them here in the real world and show them, but they did not want that as they felt more comfortable on a concrete driveway. But I so Value all of the input your putting in, and don't worry to much right now becuase this is about to go to the next level so they have not won at all and its not finished by a long shot. But your all very right about This tractor has suffered to much driveline damage that it will have to be replaced, I have since found another Government department responsible for Unsafe Products and injuries suffered from them so I have only just contacted them and from here it's just going to get bigger and bigger and costing them more money so sooner or later they will realize I am not slowng down or going away, rather I am just about to get going:thumbsup:

 

[DLTTrekkers]

Go to the newspapers !

 

[airbiscuit]

I looked at many of your videos on YouTube, but I didn't see any which actually showed the savage lurching. Posting a video showing that is more compelling than a video showing you talking about it.

 

[Fergie4608]

Hey Airbiscuit, I didn't tape much back then as I just thought you know its a problem and they will fix it but it dragged on and on, I thought you know its a lethal defect so they will get after it soon, then I got angry with the dealer and excuses so I wanted nothing to do with them, to the point that I was angry enough that I did not want to spend any money with them or support them becuase of the nonesense they were giving me in excuses just made me realize that either they didn't care or want to fix it or they really had no idea of how to fix it.
What has been clearly stated from the outset is the Dealer is absolutely useless, anytime something is worked on something else is messed up, 18 months to get the alternator fixed so that tells you how switched on they are.
Then when I did by pass the dealer and went to Agco directly and I went to great lengths to tell Agco about the dealer and how I wanted nothing to do with them and to please send me to another dealer, Apparently here in Australia the Dealer is responsible for the warranty so they do not want to just allow me to change dealers, Anyway they just ran it back through the dealers each time the complaint came through so at around 18 months they finally did work to actually fix the drive or Shuttle if you prefer so even at that time I did not have real reason to think this was going to go this way so I did not do lots in preparation for this, I wish like you say I had done allot and again this is why I am here and why I am doing all of this so that anyone else can learn to prepare even if they don't end up having the hassles I have had.
My Story is that the repair that they have done to the tractor has only swapped one set of lethal defects for another and I need answers as to why and what happened, the turning down of the Hydrualic flow was either done to restrict load on the front Axle so it can't lift and it can't use any break out force or it was done as pay back to annoy me and make it half a tractor. Or they did it to cut down on the resistance inside the tractor, this tractor has incredible drag inside and I have called it binding but I don't think that gives people the right picture, I can park the tractor on a steep hill and come out in the morning where its cold, our cold is a sookie 8 to 10 degrees Celcius not your temps, and I can start it warm it then hop on and release everything and still on the steep slope in High rank facing down hill it will not move at all, I take off in 1st and it loads up hard nearly stalling, Lately I have been experimenting further and further with this so I start it rolling and break the drive and it stops on a steep hill now this hill steeps soon to 45 degrees and unless I push it with drive it will not move, break drive and it will stop in about 1 turn of the front wheel, Now the other morning for the first time ever I repeated this about 4 times and then left it in Neutral and it actually broke loose into no engagement for the first time since the repair and free spooled, no connect of drag, now I have not been able to repeat this at all and I have tried so many times since trying to understand.
Now this I believe is possibly why they adjusted the Hydrualic flow to try to lower the Back pressure of Drag? but they have caused many other problems by them lowering this Pressure, like the steering issue that is known to be on these tractors and which nothing has ever been done to try to fix that on this tractor is now worse and more unreliable as well as the performace issues, I do also believe that the Stalling is actually worse becuase of the lower pressure but I can't understand why that would create more load on the Motor of the Tractor but again since the repair its there and its happening.
So I hope this explains some of it and yes I wish I could go back in time and redo many things but again I have to say I would never have believed I would have to fight so hard for seriously dangerous defects and lethal ones to be take care of and its still under warranty yet nothing gets done at all.