Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects

   / Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects
  • Thread Starter
#21  
Your so very right about that, Once the Work Place Health and Safety inspectors have looked at the tractor tomorrow I will re assess my options as well there is another Government department here with unsafe products so I have just sent them a complaint so hopefully that will bear fruit soon and I will keep you posted, but eventually I will go to them if they don't end up replacing it, Thanks so much for your comment Garry :)
 
   / Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects #22  
Thanks for the explanation about not having a video of the lurching. Too bad - that would have been compelling evidence.

That said, your loader (barely) lifting mulch was compelling. A 25hp SCUT could do better. You would think MF would care more about their reputation.

 
   / Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects
  • Thread Starter
#23  
Thanks so Much Airbiscuit, Very true, the thing is I can tape many things now and will do from here as each day I solve more of the puzzle and I get Many wonderful People like you helping to spread the word around, its only public opinion that will actually get them to act and I plan a Whole series of videos this week showing first hand that actual tractor in action, I said to Allan Hill which is the Manager of Technical Support here in Melbourne that I am not his Test Dummy/ Guinea Pig to do Agco/ Massey Ferguson's Research and Development works and risk my Life solving defective equipment, Surprisingly I have not recieved any responses since the diff saga. yet the Tractor in many ways is even more lethal than before, but worse functionally its a Joke. Thank you for putting my video across here as that is awesome, I don't know how to do that and was just posting link across which is far less affective then what you have done for me.
Cheers Matey I really do appreciate your help.

Garry
 
   / Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects #24  
This is such a puzzle. Could you give us a simplified list of what remains wrong after you got it back from them the last time? Yes or No to each of these would help a lot to understand your current status.

1) Lurching engagement of forward/reverse using the power shuttle ?
2) Binding of drive making it difficult to move the tractor?
3) Lack of ability to lift say 1000lbs (454kgs) in the bucket with the loader, with ease ?
4) Failure for steering to immediately point the front wheels left/right (while not buried in mud) in response to the steering wheel?

Did they tell you they "reduced hydraulic pressure ?" There really is no adjustment to simply raise or lower hydraulic pressures to my knowledge. It is just the pump and the rpm it is being turned which determines output hydraulic pressure. There should be a fixed high pressure at which a relief valve will dump flow back around to the sump to protect the pump, etc. but I don't think any of that is adjustable. MAYBE they meant they adjusted the rate of application of that pressure during shuttle action intending to smooth out the shuttle engagement ? Is that what you were saying ? None of that should have affected either steering or loader lift capacity or motion of the tractor once the clutch is out and the shuttle action is over with. That is just baffling.
If I am understanding your description of the "binding and won't move" problem that sounds like it has to be in the transmission and power shuttle area -- probably screwed up and put back together wrong (???)

In overview you have a standard transmission tractor with a clutch and a fancy way of engaging that clutch during forward and reverse shuttle movement. Once the gears and clutches are engaged, I do not see hydraulic pressure having anything to do with movement of the tractor.
 
   / Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects #25  
Fergie4608, at the risk of creating a monster, here is how you insert a video - Find the icon that looks like a filmstrip, click on it, and paste the URL of the video. Cheers :drink:

Insert Video.png
 
   / Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects
  • Thread Starter
#26  
Thanks Jwr,

I will do my best here

1 No the repair has stopped the Savage Shuttle so that is not happening any more

2 That is completely current and not only means you have to drive the tractor everywhere under its power even down hills or it will stop, shuttle to neutral and it still has the drag and it was Large before, Here I am talking about when it came back from repair, driving it at that time had huge amounts of drag/ it felt like binding in the tractor driveline and I described it that way. BUT I now believe that there was two faults there at the same time, it would chatter up and down at slow speed in the front diff wheels, as if tires to high and on Tarmac and it would also roll and bind up then free for a second and then bind again and if I steered the tractor it was much worse. I thought this was something the missaligned when reassembling the tractor, Diff Lock was almost impossible to get in, in fact I would have to stand to get it in and this was never like this before this splitting.
2A
I then found that it Blew the Front Bevel Gears in the Left hand axle, Now I believe that binding and letting go was actually that as I don't know when the diff was damaged but I do know without a doubt when it let go. I wrongly thought they were one fault and I am sure they were separate. But the Binding and loading of the Drag was a consequence that came from the O rings having next to no clearance now and I suspect you are totally right when you said this was not a good fix, but it was their fix and I suspect they have only done a few, I also suspect that these next fixes really did not happen where someone had dead flat farm land and no hills, because the drag causes massive power problems with hills and stalling.
This also can vary in serverity where I have had places where I must go all the way back to low range to be able to take off and yet the tractor had no load or bind issues before the repair. Also I must mention here to you that this drag obviously makes it harder for the motor, but now the Hydrualics take a huge toll on it, and also then if you apply steering then its gunna stall within seconds she will be Knocking to a stall, the 3 combined just rob everything and this tractor never was like this before, those other fuctions could be operated without bothering the motor at all so I don't know the why's but I can tell you what happens and quickly, I really don't feel the motor has a part in this like a loss of power from the pulling in half but the Hydrualics take a huge toll on it and this makes it extemely un predictable cause you can't tell when something will mount up and its all over so very quickly just by turning the wheels.
Sorry for that but I have jumped from the first repair of the splitting the tractor and how it came back, this last bit is actually now.

3 They have never told me anything at all of the repairs after the splitting, they have never discussed what they did or didn't do and in fact that letter I posted is the sole correspondence I have ever recieved from the Dealer which is zero and that one letter from Agco. I Tell you what the tractor was before and what it is now. To answer this remember there is 2 repairs here, the one where they split it in half is where the drag came from. Lift capacity was excellent when it came back, meaning it was as it was when I bought it and that never changed, only the Valve issue existed, Performance was excellent.
The Change came when the Diff Blew and you saw the letter in that letter I can not find anywhere that mentions changing any Hydrualic setting but he does say that all operations are working as per specifications, but does not mention adjustments, Later I will post video of it doing loader work in which it lifts heaped buckets of dirt material with ease and after they worked on it you have seen its limitations, More to this I have to say to you I don't know what has been done, Just the Tractor left here in full capacity of lifting and that is what came back, but remember he respond to say the Drive of the machine, But my Complaint to him entailed the drag so I believe they lowered pressure to try to lower the drag becuase I feel it has some connection to the O rings and oil transfer causing a back pressure of some kind causing the Binding/ Load/Drag but I have no idea how or what they did, See My problem solving is good and methodical So I now know that the 3 things are linked the drive, the Loader and then Steering, and I can tell you the steering is the last circuit so to speak in the sharing of oil and function and will be the one robbed if they are used in order.
I had that many times, change direction then lift loader and trim bucket for carry = no fluid in the Steering and would not return in respectable time, I admit I did not pursue this for any time frame instead I went to moving the tractor where ever it was pointing until the steering came back on line. I did allot of loader work so this was all the time when close to the truck, if you were running straight back, then my guess is many may never have known this was there.
4 In my Case the loss of steering was never a load issue it was always a fluid issue I believe, once it comes back with a large heaped bucket it has tons of power and moves the wheels back and forth with ease. I could cause it without load on the axle randomly it wasn't related to the bucket always being full, I have had it many times with just a bale of hay in it and having operated the 3 funstions in order. but its even more apparent now and random because I believe the lower pressure or what ever is causing this reduction in operational function.

You say there is no adjustment and mention the relief pressure which is what I think they lowered to stop the Tractor from being able to lift or break out much, Now they have not told me they did anything to this, only that is what I have now and what I had prior to this inspection and repair of the diff would lift perfectly and stablity was fantastic.

I can't tell you what causes the Binding or load if you want cause that is what it actually is, but saying that the tractor never releaves that load even in neutral is the best way to explain it, now you and I know that if in Neutral then it should be in Neutral and no load or resistance but it has only ever free spooled once since all of this repairs happened and I have never been able to cause it again. Honestly I am positive they have given up becuase they have never gone this far and they don't understand why and instead of taking it back and replacing it they have chosen a bad path and don't want to go back the other way at this point which is really crazy.

SO where do you think that binding is then, Cause its massive, but it is less now then the first repair, you see I was blaming the Binding for blowing the diff becuase originally I thought they aligned something wrong and that loaded one axle in the front diff which makes no sense at all and they say its impossible, but I run it full time in 4 wheel drive becuase of the slippery conditions and steep terrain, but back then prior to the diff I did go to 2 wd drive and the resistance from memory in truning was gone?

Also back then I put the slasher on and the Tractor had trouble running it, I do believe that it was also related to all of this, I guess I must throw it back on and test it again to check that as well but it may have been more like the other issues of Shuttle, loader, then steering and nothing left to run the tractor as the load took over.

Prior to the split this tractor has never stalled from the Hydrualic Pump load yet it can be done now so I have no idea.
 
   / Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects #27  
OH MY ! OK, I think I understand current status. By the way, you have separate hydraulic pumps for the steering and then for the rest of the hydraulics a larger pump. Mine is that way and you can probably confirm yours is that way too by checking the spec sheets on the web.

Is there binding and difficulty moving the tractor when you are in 2WD and out of 4WD ? I'm guessing you tried that but it sounded like you were not sure. If the tractor moves freely as it should in 2WD that would point to problems remaining in your front axle OR possibly the part of the transmission that drives the shaft up to the front differential.

Obviously they should never have delivered this tractor back to you in the condition it is in.
 
   / Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Thanks JWR, I just went out and tested it as you described becuase its been so long since I drove it that way, but no there is no difference in the binding in 2 wd or 4wd I think originally it was allot of the front diff making it considerably worse. I really wonder what could be put back together wrongly to give the drag, I have just spoke to Allan Hill and I want to say he was extremely helpful and he is doing his best to help go through this so for the first time in a long time I am hopeful that we might be able to get things sorted out. I can tell you that I like to work out why something happens just so you can understand it and something like this that makes no sense at all really is strange. I really hope and desire that Agco/ Massey Ferguson and I can be friends again after this . I totally agree with you that from the very start its been a dealer failure but then the Customer which is me LOL ends up being the Bad Guy and others stop listening becuase what they say makes sense on face value instead of actually looking at the equipment in the field where it is functionally having issues.
 
   / Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects
  • Thread Starter
#29  
Thanks Airbiscuit, No I promise to behave and not post anything Lol I Always wanted a quiet and peaceful resolution to this situation, so often its people who let down a product and the Product wears the fault and blame for what happens next and Everyone loses sight of what the issue really was, I have fought to understand what is causing this, and the Fact is that the diff repair has nothing to do with this fault of drag at all. I did ask that they inspect the tractor here on site in actual working conditions so I could demonstrate what was happening and the Dealer was not the least bit interested. I reckon something has been put together wrong, But what I have no idea at all.
 
   / Massey Ferguson 4608 Lethal defects
  • Thread Starter
#30  
I just went back again and tested it again to test when I break drive either by shuttling to neutral or using the clutch then there is no difference in Drag, is there another place.
Really we are left with the conclusion that something is put together wrong, there is no noise, there is no whining or Chatter, just resistance which is what my original complaint was that when the dealer fixes something they mess something else up which was were we were at. Only pulling the Tractor apart could ever resolve this question.
I presume they tested the tractor on the flat level ground there but they found no difference in it but all that means is they were not looking for resistance to rolling I guess but being on flat ground you would expect it to stop and I guess if they were using it in low range they may not have expected it to continue rolling.
 

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