Massey vs. Agco

3Leroy · May 9, 2006

( (
The ST24 is a sub-compact

)

The ST 24 is a small frame compact tractor/ Full Category 1 hitch. It is a little larger than a sub compact tractor.

The AGCO Brands and Massey brands are nearly identical. With a few exceptions like the backoue GC2310 which is a Massey exclusive, you will be able to find the exact same machine in either Orange or Red. )

The url I posted was from AGCO. They say the ST24 is a subcompact. They would have classified the ST24 as a compact if it were true. http://www.agcotractors.agcocorp.com/@resource/agcoproductspecs/AG_ST%20Series_Brochure.pdf

AGCO owns the Massey Ferguson brand. It would make good sense that the brands they offer are duplicted in form fit and function.

I had my eye on the ST25 2 years ago and it has now dissapeared from the market place. Replaced by an ?

Communication from AGCO or Massey with respect to tractors is slow, if at all. The dealers are the primary contact point. They know what they sell. whereas the Parent company should be able to communicate. about their product line.

dgl24087 · May 10, 2006

From the link you posted, the spec page on the ST24 lists it as a small frame, not a subcut.

aesanders · May 10, 2006

3Leroy,

Please reread you're link. You will find that they classify the St24a as a small frame compact. The listing compares it to the subcompact ST22, but the 24A is definately a small frame compact.

Basically, the seperation between a small frame compact and sub compact is in the height of the machine. The compacts have larger tires and and full category 1 hitch, while the subcompacts are shorter in stature and have limited category 1 hitches. The limited hitch is basically the height you will need to lift some implements. Some of the limited hitches do not open up quite as wide for some implements as well, but for the most part, the height that the implement needs limits the hitch.

3Leroy · May 11, 2006

( 3Leroy,

Please reread you're link. You will find that they classify the St24a as a small frame compact. The listing compares it to the subcompact ST22, but the 24A is definately a small frame compact.

Basically, the seperation between a small frame compact and sub compact is in the height of the machine. The compacts have larger tires and and full category 1 hitch, while the subcompacts are shorter in stature and have limited category 1 hitches. The limited hitch is basically the height you will need to lift some implements. Some of the limited hitches do not open up quite as wide for some implements as well, but for the most part, the height that the implement needs limits the hitch. )

I posted the url because AGCO says the ST24 is a Subcompact it is misleading to specify otherwise. I researched this information for a long time and if i could have i would have bought the AGCO ST25 Compact tractor. This item is no longer offerd.

I don't believe you and i are going to agree on this.
If you do a web search for compact agco tractors. The compacts start with the ST25 - ST55.

While it feels good to think that maybe just maybe the 22.5 hp ST 24 is a compact. Hopefully no one will be injured by expecting as much from it as a compact.

I am finding less and less now days on the web with respect to tractor specifications. Agco has trimmed the text version off the site. pdf's are not as easy as text to copy paste.

I talked with the Dealer about the GC2310 and he showed me how strong that frame was by moving the tractor useing the fel and the back hoe. He said the GC2310 moves just like the big toys. I saw that. But it is a subcompact and im ok with that rating. Customer satisfaction is where it's at.

Agco did not have an ST25 within 190 miles of me to have a sit on one. and since has done away with the model.
The STa variation has been difficult to trace the change from ST to Sta.

Im wondering If AMF is now building parts for them?

3Leroy · May 11, 2006

( From the link you posted, the spec page on the ST24 lists it as a small frame, not a subcut. )

So the Marketing group has found a finer print that enables them to promote a tractor via small frame as opposed the sub compact. Does that tell you it is just as strong and therefore deserving of the tag Compact Utility Tractor?

I believe what i have previously researched in 05 to be factual. I see that Agco is bending the verbage a bit. Do a search for AGCO compact tractors. You will find ST25- ST55 nothing less.

Because i have to travel 245. miles to see one. Also they never had one but they do sell them, made me rethink the Brand. So far Massey is closer 36 miles and the dealer is more trustworthy than the Kubota dealer and Cheaper than the John Deer dealer both are within 4 miles of me.

The Kubota dealer lost me because he did not stand behind the agreement we had, on a used piece of equipment.

I would have bought the AGCO ST25 but i needed hands on.

aesanders · May 11, 2006

3Leroy
I think you are missing the point,

Just about all manufacturer's have machines in size with the st24a. They all list it as a small frame compact. It's not a marketing strategy by AGCO.

Kubota sub compact = BX series.
Kubota small frame = b series such as b 7510

John Deere subcut = 2305
John Deere small frame cut = (2320 coming out soon which is the replacement for their prior small frame the 4110 I believe the number was.

New Holland subcut = TZ series
New Holland small frame cut = TC 23da

Massey Subcut = gc2300
Massey small frame compact = 1523

All the subcompacts machines are very similar in in power train functions to the small frame compacts. In fact some of the subcuts have larger engines etc. What the subcuts lack is a 3 point hitch that can be listed as a true category 1 hitch. The subcompacts are all shorter and do not have the ability to raise implements in the rear to full height. Thus they are called limited Category 1 hitches. And hence, they are called sub compact tractors.

3Leroy · May 11, 2006

( 3Leroy
I think you are missing the point,

Just about all manufacturer's have machines in size with the st24a. They all list it as a small frame compact. It's not a marketing strategy by AGCO.

Kubota sub compact = BX series.
Kubota small frame = b series such as b 7510

John Deere subcut = 2305
John Deere small frame cut = (2320 coming out soon which is the replacement for their prior small frame the 4110 I believe the number was.

New Holland subcut = TZ series
New Holland small frame cut = TC 23da

Massey Subcut = gc2300
Massey small frame compact = 1523

All the subcompacts machines are very similar in in power train functions to the small frame compacts. In fact some of the subcuts have larger engines etc. What the subcuts lack is a 3 point hitch that can be listed as a true category 1 hitch. The subcompacts are all shorter and do not have the ability to raise implements in the rear to full height. Thus they are called limited Category 1 hitches. And hence, they are called sub compact tractors. )

I actually attempted to retrieve information from A.S.A.E.
on the CAT 1 reference, and no go yet. The documentation i have for the GC2300 and GC2310 indicates they are A.S.A.E. cat 1 -3 pt hitch. So maybe they left a smidge of info out of that bro sure, So that the buyer would be dooped into buying something that was incapeable of the proper lift for a true cat1.

The grey areas are why i have not bought one. Im looking for answers and i go direct to the source and they do not respond.

I don't want a dealers perspective while he is probably the best one to answer the questions. getting an answer on the printed page helps me and not he said they said.

I wasn't actually looking for a small frame compact. I did like the ST25 which was a small enough frame compact and it was listed as a compact. Now they have done away with that and added an "a" to the ST line "STa "and i'm backing off that product line because they will not bring one to a farm show. and changes to the web site and lack of response to questions have not brought me any closer to their products they don't care for my business and i don't want to go on, on this subject.

aesanders · May 11, 2006

The A models are the replacement for the non a models. In the Massey line the 1500 series is the new replacement for the 1400 series. Both were available at one time, although the old models are being phased out.

In reference to a compact tractor being small, medium or large frame. Please realize they are all compact tractors. The small frame just means they are smaller tractors. The large frame models are the larger tractors like an STA 40. The STA 40 has a larger frame and more capabilty than an STA 24a. Does not mean the STA 24a is not a well built machine. It's designed smaller for a reason.

The GC 2300 is a category 1 hitch. It's just limited in certain ways. Nobody's trying to doop anyone. That is the nature of a subcompact machine.

3Leroy · May 21, 2006

( The A models are the replacement for the non a models. In the Massey line the 1500 series is the new replacement for the 1400 series. Both were available at one time, although the old models are being phased out.

In reference to a compact tractor being small, medium or large frame. Please realize they are all compact tractors. The small frame just means they are smaller tractors. The large frame models are the larger tractors like an STA 40. The STA 40 has a larger frame and more capabilty than an STA 24a. Does not mean the STA 24a is not a well built machine. It's designed smaller for a reason.

The GC 2300 is a category 1 hitch. It's just limited in certain ways. Nobody's trying to doop anyone. That is the nature of a subcompact machine.

)

I was not attempting to draw a conclusion that the AGCO is attempting to doop. Marketing is the animal i was referring to in this instance.

The subcompact in some eyes is a Well built lawn mower.
A small frame compact, is a compact. The small frame indicator is prolly the muddying part where a subcompact could be construed to be a compact. The size of the tires as you have indicated draw the line with respect to the CAT 1 and limited CAT 1.

The Massey color pamflet indicates the GC2310 PTO hitch is an ASAE CAT 1 yet time after time i s see complaints about the PHD being a problem to get it picked up enough. And the front of that pamflet says GC2300 series compact tractor.

Ok it is a compact, but it is sub compact in that, it is not a true CAT 1 or the compalints would not be floated for raising the PHD enough. Tires are to small to pick up the PHD.

3Leroy · May 21, 2006

( The A models are the replacement for the non a models. In the Massey line the 1500 series is the new replacement for the 1400 series. Both were available at one time, although the old models are being phased out.

In reference to a compact tractor being small, medium or large frame. Please realize they are all compact tractors. The small frame just means they are smaller tractors. The large frame models are the larger tractors like an STA 40. The STA 40 has a larger frame and more capabilty than an STA 24a. Does not mean the STA 24a is not a well built machine. It's designed smaller for a reason.

The GC 2300 is a category 1 hitch. It's just limited in certain ways. Nobody's trying to doop anyone. That is the nature of a subcompact machine.

)

I was not attempting to draw a conclusion that the AGCO is attempting to doop. Marketing is the animal i was referring to in this instance.

The subcompact in some eyes is a Well built lawn mower.
A small frame compact, is a compact. The small frame indicator is prolly the muddying part where a subcompact could be construed to be a compact. The size of the tires as you have indicated draw the line with respect to the CAT 1 and limited CAT 1.

The Massey color pamflet indicates the GC2310 PTO hitch is an ASAE CAT 1 yet time after time i s see complaints about the PHD being a problem to get it picked up enough. And the front of that pamflet says GC2300 series compact tractor.

Ok it is a compact, but it is sub compact in that, it is not a true CAT 1 or the compalints would not be floated for raising the PHD enough. Tires are to small to pick up the PHD.