Max Brake Controller????????????

[Diamondpilot]

Does any of you guys or gals have any experience with the Max Brake Controller? Here is the site: http://www.maxbrake.com/

I install quite a few brake controllers. I use everything from Reese to Prodigy and have never been happy with any of them after buying my 2006 Ford PSD F-350 with its tow command system. It is hands down the best one I have used and I have probably used 50 different controllers in my 20 years of towing.

For those of you who are not familiar with the Ford Tow Command System it uses a pressure sensor mounted in the master cylinder to apply proportional braking to the trailer brakes. The harder you press the brake pedal the more power is sent to the trailer brakes. It takes very little adjustment compared to aftermarket controllers and allows the brakes to work in reverse without use of the override switch mounted on most controllers. This is important in my line of towing since a 20,000# or heavier boat will pull a 1 ton truck down the ramp no problem, even in park. GM also has a built in trailer brake option now but I am not sure how it works but I assume they did as Ford did and use a pressure switch on the master cylinder.

I saw this Max Brake system being installed on TV last week and was very impressed. It looks like it uses the same technology as the Ford system. It was tested against a Prodigy P3 and was able to best the stopping distances by 40% on average. They were using a 1 ton dually and a tri axle goose neck car haul trailer. The Prodigy P3 took over 500 feet from 55 to stop and the Max Brake took just over 300 feet.

So enough back ground info. Has anyone used one or installed one? The site says its a easy install, about 1 hour. They have a video to show how to do it on a 7.3 Ford.

Chris

 

[kennyd]

I have a Jordan BC in my truck ('92 F250HD 7.3l Turbo Diesel) and it is the best I have used. It does the proportional thing without cutting into the brake lines. Unfortunately they stopped production to come with a new model that has not been released yet though...It's made in the USA also!

Doesn't really answer your question though, sorry.

 

[Diamondpilot]

You do not have to cut into the brake line. All you do is remove one line from the master cylinder and install a "T". On one side goes the break line you removed and on the other side goes the pressure sensor. Here is a pic of the system and how you install the "T". All you do once its installed is loosen the pressure sensor then pump the brakes and tighten to bleed. No need to bleed the brake line because it remains full of fluid.

I have used the Jordan. Its the one that has a linkage that connects to the brake pedal itself and is better than some but is no match for the Tow Command System in my opinion. I am guessing the Max Brake system will be a better yet.

Chris

 

[kennyd]

Not cutting the brake lines is definitely a plus over another type like this I read about...

How much is it? If it work as good as the Jordan, than I can't see while you would not like it. I have no experience with Ford's Tow Command.

Have you searched in any RV forums?

 

[wkpoor]

Finally a brake system that does what your foot is doing on the tow vehicle. I always said the old hydraulic tap ins had to work better than straight electric but I'll bet mfgs don't really like people tapping in as some were done in an unsafe way. Thanks for the info on that controller.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have searched a few sites and found some good info on it but mostly company supplied testimonials. I am sure they would not post negative stuff so I trust the guys and gals here at this site so thought I would give it a try.

As for cost its about $319 or about twice as much as the Prodigy P3. That includes everything like the pressure switch, T, and even the vehicle specific plug to tap into the factory wiring under the dash. By the way the Ford Tow Command is $250, a bargain. I am guessing the guys with 2005 Super Duty's with out it are kicking themselves in the rear for not getting it. I know my uncle is on his 2005 F-350 4x4 V-10. But if it works better I would be willing to pay for it. I tow with my 99 Powerstroke, my 2004 Powerstroke, and my 2006 Powerstroke plus a 2007 F-150. I have a Reese in one, 2 Prodigy's, and the Ford Tow Command. I will say the Tow Command will stop the same trailer much shorter than the other two with out the jerky-ness and fade. I am reading this will give the same results.

Chris

 

[MarkLeininger]

How does such a hydraulic system account for the actions of the ABS system on the vehicle? With a hydraulic brake controller, if you push your foot all the way to the floor, the trailer brakes will probably lock up, but the ABS controller may only be actuating the vehicle brakes 10% of the time if the pavement is slippery.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Actually it works very well. It will actually prevent a jack knife and shorten stopping distance just as anti-lock brakes on our vehicles has. On the Ford system and the Brake Max system as your vehicles wheels lose traction the anti-lock system modulates the hydraulic pressure in the master cylinder. In these cases it would also cycle the trailer brakes preventing lock up thus shortening the total stopping distance because the pressure switch is installed between the master cylinder and the caliper of the tow vehicle.

At least this is the way I understand it.

Chris

 

[Builder]

I think it's probably pretty good, but anyone who installs one better hope that little "T" fiiting is built to some tough specs. If that T lets go, you'll lose all your brakes.

I don't like the idea of modifying my brake lines, especially if it's anything like the cheap Chinese fittings I have seen let go in other plumbing systems.

I'm not sure about the ABS working on trailer because that usually requires an ABS sensor to be mounted on an axle. Maybe there's a way they get around that. Not sure.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I agree with you that you could loose all your brakes but if you are thinking when or if it ever happens you simply reach down and activate the manual lever on the brake controller unit itself. In this case you would be using the trailer brakes to haul down the entire load so stopping distance would probably be 5 times that of normal. In the end you are not modifying anything per say. You are just putting in a "T" fitting and then reattaching the factory brake line on one end and installing the supplied pressure switch on the other.

As for the anti-lock thing. On my Ford with the Tow Command System when the trucks wheel brakes go into anti lock mode it is modulating the pressure coming from the master cylinder, thus also modulating the pressure to the brake controllers pressure switch. I am assuming the same would happen with this aftermarket system.

Builder or others with 2500 or 3500 GM trucks, do any of you have the factory brake controller? If so how does it work? I always assumed it was like the Fords but not sure.

Chris

 

[Builder]

I agree with you that you could loose all your brakes but if you are thinking when or if it ever happens you simply reach down and activate the manual lever on the brake controller unit itself. In this case you would be using the trailer brakes to haul down the entire load so stopping distance would probably be 5 times that of normal. In the end you are not modifying anything per say. You are just putting in a "T" fitting and then reattaching the factory brake line on one end and installing the supplied pressure switch on the other.

As for the anti-lock thing. On my Ford with the Tow Command System when the trucks wheel brakes go into anti lock mode it is modulating the pressure coming from the master cylinder, thus also modulating the pressure to the brake controllers pressure switch. I am assuming the same would happen with this aftermarket system.

Builder or others with 2500 or 3500 GM trucks, do any of you have the factory brake controller? If so how does it work? I always assumed it was like the Fords but not sure.

Chris

I don't know how that would work since each axle needs an ABS sensor to make it work. For example, I had an early '99 Ford Superduty that had rear ABS only. The front axle & brakes did not. I also had a later '99 Ford Superduty. It had 4-wheel ABS. It had a ABS sensor on the front, IIRC. I would think any axle with ABS would need a sensor to work. However, it might be b/c the master cylinder has a "split system". I really don't know.

The GM factory brake controller came out the year after I bought my truck.

Somehow, I seem to be getting by without one. I think my 6-speed Ally with gradient braking might help.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am guessing what they are doing is piggy backing of one of the wheel brake circuits of the truck. If that wheel goes into anti-lock then the trailer does also.

I have been getting by with out one for 20 years also but after using the Ford Integrated System I have been wishing for such a system to retrofit my other 3 trucks. I praise the Ford system every time I use it over my Prodigy and Reese controllers. If this is 1/2 as good as the Ford system I would be happy.

Chris

 

[MarkLeininger]

Actually it works very well. It will actually prevent a jack knife and shorten stopping distance just as anti-lock brakes on our vehicles has. On the Ford system and the Brake Max system as your vehicles wheels lose traction the anti-lock system modulates the hydraulic pressure in the master cylinder. In these cases it would also cycle the trailer brakes preventing lock up thus shortening the total stopping distance because the pressure switch is installed between the master cylinder and the caliper of the tow vehicle.

At least this is the way I understand it.

Chris

This isn't consistent with the purpose of ABS. The point of ABS brakes is to control the braking of each wheel independently of the others. If you modulate the pressure coming out of the master cylinder, that affects all the wheels the same, which is no better than the old days when we used to pump the brakes with our foot.

 

[Diamondpilot]

But looking at my trucks I have 4 hard lines coming out of each master cylinder. I am guessing that means each wheel has its own circuit from the master cylinder. This would allow the master cylinder to do the controlling of the anti-lock brakes. I am just guessing how it works. I have only done simple pad and rotor changes along with some shoes and drum changes and changed a few hard and flexible lines. I have never done any work to the anti-lock system or master cylinders so I really am asking others for input.

I guess what I really need to do is visit my Ford garage this week and find out exactly how my Tow Command System works and then call Max Brake and get someone on the phone who know his stuff.

Chris

 

[MarkLeininger]

This intrigued me so I went off and read about Tow Command. It's an option package that includes something called IBC, integrated brake controller. IBC takes the output pressure of the master cylinder and the truck's speed, sends it to one of the computers, which produces the proper trailer brake voltage given those inputs. During an "emergency braking situation", which I have to infer is determined by looking at the behavior of the ABS sensors, the master cylinder modulates it's output pressure. This causes the electric signal to the trailer brakes to also be modulated, equivalent to pumping the brakes. By installing the "T" into the hydraulic system at the master cylinder, it's possible to use that modulating pressure directly to pump the trailer brakes. The truck's ABS system continues to control each wheel independently. Very slick.

Unfortunately I don't have enough money to buy a new truck (or gas for the one I have) or even a new trailer, so I'm stuck with my Prodigy and old horse trailer.

 

[Willl]

you'll lose all your brakes.

If the fitting should fail, you'll only lose the brakes (front or rear) on the line you install the 'T'.

The other line (and again, front or rear) will still operate normally.

 

[Willl]

Chris, if you all ready have the Ford TCS system, why would you need the Max Brake ?

 

[Diamondpilot]

Chris, if you all ready have the Ford TCS system, why would you need the Max Brake ?

.

I only have it on my personal truck, a 2006 F-350. We also have a 1999 F-350 and a 2004 F-250 all 4x4 and diesel. In addition we also have a 2007 F-150 4x4. On the 07 I have a Reese controller which is ok at best and on the two diesels I have the Prodigy controllers which are a far cry from the Ford system and only slightly better than the Reese. If I could duplicate or even come close to the Ford system I have on my 2006 F-350 I would be happy. In my line of business we are putting in boats that weigh upwards of 20,000# and some as much as 25,000#. From what I have seen once you get above 10-12K # you really see the short comings of the conventional brake controllers.

I was happy with the Prodigy products until I got the F-350 with the Ford system then I quickly realized they were no comparison. From what I have read the Max Brake is essentially the same thing. Kind of the same way I was happy with my old truck until I found out about GVWR ratings and things like that. I now order them the way I want them. For example you can get the same F-350 with 7 different spring packages from the factory with over 1500# of carrying difference between them.

Chris

 

[Builder]

Ford is great at sizzle, but I prefer steak. Things like the retractable mirrors & the brake controllers, etc.

Now if they could just stick with one diesel engine for a while and get a better tranny & rear, they'd have a truck that could keep up with GM. I'd rather have a allison trans & no brake controller than a torqshift and a integrated brake controller. I'd rather have an 11.5" posi than a SFA. I'd rather have a more proven diesel with a 8 yr track record than a diiferent diesel every 3-4 years.

I'm not going back to Ford until they build a better truck than GM or Dodge.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Hear you go again bring up the whole my truck is better than your thing! This has nothing to do with Ford, GM, or Dodge. I agree GM has the Dura-Max straightened out now but that was not the case when I had one and yes the Allison is a good tranny but in my opinion GM needs to put a total package together that can hang with Ford. In my eyes the GM trucks just fall short. This is not not pick on GM because I feel the same way about Dodge, thats why I buy Fords for now until Toyota or Nissian get in the Diesel game.

I know you think the GM offering is better. That is why you spent your hard earned money on it. I personally think the Ford trucks have them topped. The guy who lives across the street owns a 3500 Cummins Dodge. He would have not bought it if he did not feel it was the best truck for him.

We all have opinions and they are like the old saying goes. "They are like ***** HOLES, everybody has one and most of them stink!"
Chris