Maxxforce diesel engines

[mrmikey]

“Transplanting a Cummins” would be nice, but with all the sensors, electronics, etc. It would be an absolute nightmare. I bet it would cost $40,000

A nightmare would be an understatement unless the replacement engine was specifically designed for a replacement into the Int. chassis. Especially since the one HD was looking at was an auto, they don't even play nice together when they were designed to.
$40K would be on the cheaper side I'd think.

 

[Hay Dude]

I found a Freightliner with a C-13 and a Allison HD4500 auto, but it’s $65K.
I really wanted to find something before the really rough-off road hay hauling hits.

Sellers know what they got. Even a 6x6 with a CAT C-7 gets pretty good money and they were pretty much an underpowered boat anchor.

 

[Hay Dude]

A nightmare would be an understatement unless the replacement engine was specifically designed for a replacement into the Int. chassis. Especially since the one HD was looking at was an auto, they don't even play nice together when they were designed to.
$40K would be on the cheaper side I'd think.

International is now using L-9’s. I’d take an L-9 in a heartbeat, but they’re so new, they want like $150,000.

 

[dodge man]

I see people with something like a V6 Challenger ask about putting a V8 in their car. The answer is always getting in the car and bolted up is easy. Getting the electronics working is a nightmare. I suspect swapping truck engines on an old truck would be easy but on a newer truck the same thing, the electronics would be a nightmare.

 

[4570Man]

Or better yet, hopefully do neither.
“Transplanting a Cummins” would be nice, but with all the sensors, electronics, etc. It would be an absolute nightmare. I bet it would cost $40,000

You wouldn’t need most of the sensors with a mechanical injection engine. Making the automatic transmission work might not be easy.

 

[Hay Dude]

You wouldn’t need most of the sensors with a mechanical injection engine. Making the automatic transmission work might not be easy.

You don’t understand how these new trucks work. It’s not just sensors.
Everything from the dome light to the engine is controlled by the PCM. The factory PCM wouldn’t “talk” to a mechanical diesel without weeks of rewiring, and fab work.

Not gonna happen without a lot of money and time.
2 things I’m awful short on.

 

[Renze]

I would immediately install aftermarket EGR system.
Probably $5,000.
Even after that I'm still way ahead on cost.

Can you do an EGR and DPF delete by having it reprogrammed ?

I have a DPF installed at the annual DOT inspection. A barely used DPF passes the particle test each year with flying colours.. just the ECU doesnt know whether its there.

 

[Hay Dude]

Well, supposedly the DPF has been “enhanced”. The EGR is still doing its’ job. I’m not aware of the ability to “delete” the EGR, only replace it with a better version.


Do you know anything about the EGR?

 

[Renze]

Do you know anything about the EGR?

Not about the International, other than that the CEO nearly killed the company by pursueing what his engineers said would be defying natures law..

Death By Hubris? The Catastrophic Decision That Could Bankrupt A Great American Manufacturer

One of America's most storied manufacturers, $14 billion Navistar, survived the Civil War, the Depression and World War II. A stubborn decision by its CEO has jeopardized its future

www.forbes.com

I found this article when i worked at the wheel loader plant and John Deere was on a similar trajectory for Tier 4 Final. We didnt want the clogged up VGTs (from EGR soot) DPF and regen issues, and cracking EGR coolers, multiplied by two when going from Tier 3 to Tier 4 interim. (After Navistar nearly bankrupted itself with EGR/DPF Deere chose wisely and used DEF for Tier 4 Final, unfortunately with a lot of throttle valves and artificial breathing still in place, to force that EGR air back into the intake manifold)

I was talking about my V70 diesel with 462.000km on the clock. (Though back 10 years, we had customers doing the same on their Deere engines)

 

[Hay Dude]

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a Maxforce if I knew it could become reliable with some “enhanced modifications”.
Looking into that more tomorrow with a local “diesel witch doctor” lol

If someone could convince me a Maxforce could be bulletproofed for a decent price, then why not buy one???

 

[mrmikey]

If someone could convince me a Maxforce could be bulletproofed for a decent price, then why not buy one???

True 'nuff.
As I had said previously, the thing that would negate me ever purchasing an Int. was the attitude of the company. Am I spiteful to the point of being riduculous....maybe LOL

 

[Hay Dude]

hopeful:

How Navistar solved its EGR problems - Truck News

LISLE, Ill. -- It’s no secret that Navistar International had its share of EGR-related failures as it attempted to meet EPA10 emissions standards without

www.trucknews.com

I’m going to get the VIN from the seller and see if my local IH dealer can tell me if anything has been done to it. I would have done this anyway, but it give a little hope.
I know….I’m trying to talk myself into it…. lol

 

[Renze]

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a Maxforce if I knew it could become reliable with some “enhanced modifications”.
Looking into that more tomorrow with a local “diesel witch doctor” lol

It was all good and funny, till the annual DOT inspection required a particle counter test to pass. Then i bought a new aftermarket DPF.

Later we found that the engine didnt stay running for more than 5 seconds. Eventually we found out the DPF filter was clogged so from now on i drive on the day of the emission test with that DPF (with no regen, thats all written out of the engines computer) and afterwards u
I bolt the straight pipe in.

I only had to clear rhe filter with my friends hot pressure washer, that worked wonders.

 

[Hay Dude]

talked to my local IH dealer today and my contact in service talked me out of it. He said they have 2 PennDOT maxforce trucks in for heads and they have been there for 9 MONTHS. Said parts are becoming an issue and the replacement parts have little improvement to them.

I guess I’ll keep looking for a pre emissions IH truck or a Freightliner/CAT or Cummins.

 

[mrmikey]

......they have been there for 9 MONTHS.

That would put someone out of business in a hurry.

I guess I’ll keep looking for a pre emissions IH truck or a Freightliner/CAT or Cummins.

Sounds like the best move, good luck

 

[Renze]

That would put someone out of business in a hurry.

Claims from customers nearly put Navistar out of business too, in 2012.
They still didnt fare well a decade later, so in 2021 they became a subsidiary of Volkswagen owned Traton, among MAN, Scania, and Volkswagen do Brasil.

TRATON – International – transportation solutions for North America | TRATON

Find out more about International, the parent company of the brands International® and IC Bus®. Its trucks, buses, and service solutions are among the leaders in the United States, Mexico and Canada.

traton.com

The new International S13 engine is the European "Super" engine, jointly developed by the Germans and Swedish.

The older MaxxForce 13 engine was an Americanised (read: stubbornly refusing DEF) version of the German MAN D2676 engine, which worked flawlessly in Europe with DEF since Euro 5 emissions, year 2005

The US industry shot itself in the foot by making each other believe they were going to get EPA 10 without DEF because their customers wouldnt accept it: All the others saw reality and began adopting it while Navistar was sueing the EPA for approving DEF, which nearly bankrupted them. Cummins emission systems division extended them a helping hand to stay in business.

 

[Rustyiron]

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a Maxforce if I knew it could become reliable with some “enhanced modifications”.
Looking into that more tomorrow with a local “diesel witch doctor” lol

If someone could convince me a Maxforce could be bulletproofed for a decent price, then why not buy one?

Hmmm, didn't you (and a lot of others) already experience this 20ish years ago? (6L Ford)
I know time heals all wounds but...

 

[Hay Dude]

Hmmm, didn't you (and a lot of others) already experience this 20ish years ago? (6L Ford)
I know time heals all wounds but...

No, never bought a 6L Ford. Looks like I’ll skip the MaxForce diesel, too.

Guess I’ll keep looking. Kinda sad. Nice chassis with everything I want, but a boat-anchor motor….

Freightliner with CAT or Cummins is 2-3 times as much.

 

[Paystar]

I’d guess you’d know more about it than the rest of us. Would you buy a Ford with a 6.0 diesel? The problems and solutions are well known with those.

I buy them all the time. Some are trouble free if left stock and you get rid of the horrid Motorcraft Gold coolant that is the main cause of them failing.

Otherwise, if you do have issues, it takes some money but they can be built to be pretty strong and reliable. And they are excellent on fuel.
Run Caterpillar coolant, stud them, delete the EGR and reroute the crankcase ventilation and you're good to go. But if you don't do that, do not tune them for power.

Note that the VT365 version used in medium duty International trucks never had near the problems the 6.0 Ford version had. Why you ask? because no Motorcraft Gold coolant in the International trucks, and people weren't TUNING their medium duty trucks.

 

[Paystar]

As far as your question Hay Dude, I can't help you there. I don't have any experience with those smaller engines.
I only ran class 8 stuff.

Those engines are pretty much like the 13 litre Maxxforce engines....a solid engine block with a horrible mass EGR emission system bolted on.