Maybe a Step 'Backwards', But Handy?

[J_J]

Re: Maybe a Step \'Backwards\', But Handy?

Bob, A lot of valves have been mentioned, so I will mention another. A selector valve is designed to switch hyd fluid to different applications, just like the one that we have here. Once installed. in the normal position, the QA cylinder would operate normally. When you pull the knob, the other circuit is activated, such as the attachment cylinder, and the QA cylinder remains in the last position. This valve may cost a little more than the on.off valve. Most of the selector valves look like this one.

 

[BobRip]

Re: Maybe a Step \'Backwards\', But Handy?

I got the valve from Surplus Center today. It looks good. I will install it later this week or maybe tonight. See attachment.

Has anyone else done this yet?

Bob Rip

 

[BobRip]

Re: Maybe a Step \'Backwards\', But Handy?

OK already, I installed it. See attachment. The handle does look like pot metal, but the rest is steel

Bob Rip

 

[bbabineau]

Bob Rip

This is one of the best mods I have seen and at some point I will do it too. Not sure if I will wait until the warranty is up but time will tell. I hate to switch from the QA to use the mini hoe or 4 in 1 so this one is for me. I also seem to always have trouble going from one to the other as I think the fittings expand under use - have you experienced this using the QA fittings and is it different now that you do not have to detach the QA?

Bob

 

[Spiffy]

Re: Maybe a Step \'Backwards\', But Handy?

OK already, I installed it. See attachment.

Now cut that out; how am I ever going to convince someone else to install a bank of spools when you do nice looking work like that!

Seriously, that is exactly how I did my BH before I added spools, and it was miles ahead of stock; of course, I like my current configuration even better, but for the use in this thread, I doubt there's a simpler/cheaper/more effective solution.

 

[BobRip]

I have experienced no problems, but I have probably have not connected more than five times since installation.

Bob Rip

 

[TimOb]

Nice mod Bob.
So, here's the sequence of operation (I think). Say, you have the mini hoe on and you want to switch to the 4n1.

1. get out of tractor and open valve
2. get back in tractor and open QA
3. get out of tractor and detach hoe hoses
4. get in tractor, release hoe, attach 4n1 and close QA
5. get out of tractor and close valve
6. get back in tractor and you're on your way

So altho you only have 2 hoses to change, you are still in and out of the tractor 3 times.

I'm thinking of a selector valve that is solenoid activated, but doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Does such a thing exist? Something like the one JJ mentions above (which is a simple manual selector valve), but with a electric solenoid.

I see surpluscenter has a double selector valve for a 12dc application, which would be a real nice one to get, but it's $200. That one allows you to dedicate the pto aux circuit to to QA and install a button on the joystick to toggle between tilt and mini hoe curl or 4n1 squeeze. I'm guessing the total cost would probably be $350 or so.

For a less expensive, but still cockpit activiated function, I'm thinking of a valve like Bobrip used, or one like JJ mentions, but one that can be activated from the cockpit.

With the a solenoid selector valve, the above sequence would be:

1. push button to activate QA circuit and open QA
2. get out of tractor and release hoe hoses
3. get in tractor and switch from hoe to 4n1
4. get out of tractor and attach 4n1 hoses
5. get back in tractor activate QA circuit, close QA and be on your way

You're out and in the tractor only 2 times.

Am I right about this? If so, anybody know if such a valve exists?

 

[BobRip]

Nice mod Bob.
So, here's the sequence of operation (I think). Say, you have the mini hoe on and you want to switch to the 4n1.

1. get out of tractor and open valve
2. get back in tractor and open QA
3. get out of tractor and detach hoe hoses
4. get in tractor, release hoe, attach 4n1 and close QA
5. get out of tractor and close valve
6. get back in tractor and you're on your way

So altho you only have 2 hoses to change, you are still in and out of the tractor 3 times.

I'm thinking of a selector valve that is solenoid activated, but doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Does such a thing exist? Something like the one JJ mentions above (which is a simple manual selector valve), but with a electric solenoid.

I see surpluscenter has a double selector valve for a 12dc application, which would be a real nice one to get, but it's $200. That one allows you to dedicate the pto aux circuit to to QA and install a button on the joystick to toggle between tilt and mini hoe curl or 4n1 squeeze. I'm guessing the total cost would probably be $350 or so.

For a less expensive, but still cockpit activiated function, I'm thinking of a valve like Bobrip used, or one like JJ mentions, but one that can be activated from the cockpit.

With the a solenoid selector valve, the above sequence would be:

1. push button to activate QA circuit and open QA
2. get out of tractor and release hoe hoses
3. get in tractor and switch from hoe to 4n1
4. get out of tractor and attach 4n1 hoses
5. get back in tractor activate QA circuit, close QA and be on your way

You're out and in the tractor only 2 times.

Am I right about this? If so, anybody know if such a valve exists?

Try this
1. get out of tractor, open valve and disconnect hoses to attachment
2. get back in tractor and open QA and drop attachment, go and connect to 4n1 and clost QA.
3. get out of tractor and close valve and connect 4n1 hoses.
4. get back in tractor and you're on your way.

Have engine off when connecting and disconnecting hoses.
Does this make sense?

Bob Rip

 

[TimOb]

Ah, I have seen the light. What was I thinking.... Thanks Bob. That's the ticket as many have said... JJ's selector valve solution should work just fine also...

 

[Spiffy]

Ah, I have seen the light. ...

[since I just commented in another thread about the smilies: I think this one looks a bit more arrogant than the "Cool, I'm happy for you!" type one on the old software - I am enjoying the new software though despite not much time to spend here lately].

I don't see how you can get simpler or cheaper than Bob's solution; though I'd call JJs valve a bit classier for not too much more expense.

Someday, somebody is going to want an entirely separate line; then just maybe I can con them into something fancier.

 

[BobRip]

In life there is room for many solutions. From now on though, I have to do nothing but the simpliest solutions. What a burden.

Bob Rip

 

[TimOb]

Spiffy,

Isn't this fancier (and your solution)?

From a prior post
"I see surpluscenter has a double selector valve for a 12dc application, which would be a real nice one to get, but it's $200. That one allows you to dedicate the pto aux circuit to to QA and install a button on the joystick to toggle between tilt and mini hoe curl or 4n1 squeeze. I'm guessing the total cost would probably be $350 or so."

Isn't that what you did? But, $350, I think is too much for my needs. I sent Power-trac an email today to get the right hose thread configuration. Then, I think Bob's mod will be going on my pt425...

Tim

 

[MossRoad]

Spiffy,

But, $350, I think is too much for my needs. ...
Tim

Here's a link to Northern Tool's website. I did a search for soleniod+valve+12v and got the following list of valves. Look at the prices. I think you could find one for around $100.00. Then you have the associated hoses, fittings and electrical switch. I haven't priced it out, so I don't know what the total mod would cost.


http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTESearch?storeId=6970&N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=solenoid%20valve%2012v&Nty=1&D=solenoid%20valve%2012v&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial

 

[TimOb]

Mossroad,
Thanks for that info. Looking at those Northman valves, I see various specifications, such as 'spring center closed" or "spring offset closed". Not exactly sure what these specs mean, but I'm thinking for a mini hoe or 4n1 application, we'd want a "open center open" configuration, or maybe "open open".

Can one of you experts (JJ, Spiffy, MR, etc...) shed some light on this?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Spiffy]

Just typed up a verbose reply with all sorts different configurations, and the new software, or the laptop here ate it. Perhaps my punishment for verbosity.

No doubt those NH descriptions are bit confusing, so I probably won't clear it up but can give you a quick general idea. If you use it in a power-beyond type configuration (essentially, in series with the existing valve bank), it has to be open circuit [the fluid goes through the valve when not in use] for PT's hydraulics. For cylinders: you want closed center (the cylinders will stay put), and for motors you want open center: the motor goes to neutral instead of a hard stop.

 

[J_J]

Chad, you are mostly correct, but let me add these definitions. With cylinders, you want open centers. With tight valves, when you release the control, the cylinders are supposed to remain in place, and you have noticed that PT's cylinders will leak down . A good valve will be tight, or have a built in load check.

Open-Center: Typically used with a fixed-displacement pump, allows oil to free-flow back to the tank in neutral position. Shifting the spool redirects oil to the selected work port.



Open-Center-Power-Beyond: Same as Open-Center valve except oil flows to downstream circuit in the neutral position instead of returning to the tank.



Closed-Center: Typically used with a variable-displacement pump, oil flow is blocked at the valve until the spool is shifted from neutral

 

[TimOb]

Spiffy/JJ,
thanks. But I'm still not sure which configuration we would need to operate the 4n1 jaws or mini hoe curl using the left/right joy stick movement.

Now, Spiffy thinks cylinders would use closed center and JJ thinks open center.

This one is spring center closed:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_38482_38482

This one is spring center opened:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_38484_38484

Spiffy, here is the one I think you used:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006062513384248&item=9-1782&catname=hydraulic

Do you guys think one of those Northman valves at Northertool will work in a configuration similar to Spiffy's?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[J_J]

Tim, The joystick valve you use to raise, lower and tilt the bucket is an open center valve. When you are ar rest, or neutral, the fluid is going back to tank. Some valves have power beyond, and that is used when you add a valve downstream. The first valve bank uses the fluid first, and the valve down stream is cut off until the first valve is finished . On my 1445, I have a third valve on the valve bank that has the joystick, For me it is used to change the angle on the blade, or I use it activate the grapple unit that I built. On your unit it may be used for the QA.

 

[Spiffy]

On my 1445, I have a third valve on the valve bank that has the joystick, For me it is used to change the angle on the blade, or I use it activate the grapple unit that I built. On your unit it may be used for the QA.

That's the way my 2445 is, first two spools on the joystick and last for the QA; it has quick connects so for other uses, but that would have the same frustrations as started this thread.

 

[Spiffy]

But I'm still not sure which configuration we would need to operate the 4n1 jaws or mini hoe curl using the left/right joy stick movement.

Tim

Actually we were both saying you need a open center valve for the PT's constant volume [always flowing] circuits; this will hold true whether you have a PB port or just go in series. I confused the issue by further noting that there are cylinder spools and motor spools, which I've seen refered to in relation to "center" as well. Northern doesn't seem to specify cylinder or motor; perhaps I'm blind or perhaps they assume you want cylinder spools. Either way sorry about the confusion.

Actually, I used manual valves, I'll see if the search finds my thread on that for some pictures.