MF1010 bucket hydraulics are backwards

[handirifle]

About 6 years ago I bought a MF1010 (first tractor if case you didn't guess) and later learned the bucket hydraulics are upside down. By that I mean the cylinder sits at the bucket end of the arm and it moves as the piston extends, thus stressing my lines and making them impossible to anchor properly.

I have used it like this since I bought it, but I do want to make it correct. My question is the ends of the cylinder and rod. The rod end (currently at the top) is the single piece with the hole in the center. The cylinder end (that SHOULD be at the top) has the forked end with a hole in each side of the fork. The forked end will NOT fit in the top end. Can these ends be swapped with another end to get one that WILL fit? I am sure if the single end was installed near the bucket, where it should be, it would need to be shimmed a lot.

These cylinders look to be exactly like the ones that move the main arm of the bucket. Aren't they usually different sizes?

Sorry if these names/terms are not accurate, it's the best I know how to explain it.

 

[jenkinsph]

Can you post pictures?

 

[LD1]

Cut the ends off and weld them back on the opposite side.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would correct that in whatever way was needed. The cylinders should not move when installed correctly.

 

[handirifle]

Jenkins,
I will try to get some up.

LD1
I am no whee near a good enough welder to do that.

Gary Fowler
Yea it's looking like replacing them might be the best option. I was hoping there would be a cheaper way. I have known they were wrong from early on (not when I bought it. Live and learn)

Looking at some pics on the web of MF1010's I see what I THINK I might need. They look like they have sleeves on each end, that are perpendicular to the cylinder, that a pin goes through. I am going to do some more research and see if I can get original part numbers to match.

 

[handirifle]

AM trying to upload pics now, but email server is acting up

 

[handirifle]

OK here's the side shot, showing the whole setup

Here's the lower connection

And the upper one

Here's the main arm of the loader (not sure of name), and the cylinder look identical. I think they had some of these and figured out a way to use them instead of buying the right ones.

Hope this helps show my dilemma.

The top cylinder connection is 1" across. The bottom opening is 3" wide.

If I cannot find the correct part number, how will I know things like closed length, open length, etc? The bucket will NOT raise above level. So if I have a load of dirt in it, I cannot tip the bucket back to retain it. Make sense?

 

[LD1]

Hopefully someone has that same loader with original cylinders that can help you out and get you some pictures and dimensions. Baileynet.com has some different "loader" cylinders that may work. Those are cheap tie rod cylinders, with the wrong ends that somebody hacked into working.

I'd be looking for correct cylinders.

 

[handirifle]

I am definitely looking to replace the bucket ones, the others are working as they should, not sure if correct size or not, but at least they do not move with the FEL.

I have looked and none of my manuals cover the FEL, so out of luck on that source.

 

[handirifle]

Foes anyone know how to measure the FEL without the cylinder in place to determine correct length?

 

[LD1]

Are you currently happy with the rollback and dump angle?

If so, measure retracted length from pin Center to pin Center. And the stroke length.

Shorter gets more roll back but less dump.

Longer gets less rollback but more dump as long as you don't bind the rod on the loader arm.

If the bucket has hard stops, take cylinder off and physically curl bucket all the way back til it hits the stops, same for dump.

Measurements are pin Center to pin center

 

[handirifle]

OK thanks. No, I am not happy, there is no "rollback", at all. Dump angle is good. The lower fitting, the double one, seems extremely long. I wonder if one of the welded cylinders like this one IMW-212 - 2" Bore, 12" Stroke Welded Hydraulic Cylinder would change the length issue? It seems like the fittings are shorter, thus longer cylinder? I have no idea on this.

 

[handirifle]

On the rollback, there are hard stops, not sure on the dump. I will look tomorrow, and see if I can get some measurements.

If there are hard stops for the dump, does that mean that I split the difference between the two? Or is it, at dump stops, that is extended length, and roll back stops are closed length?

 

[handirifle]

Here's a picture I found, but the hydraulics on this one are totally opposite of mine.

I assume this one is correct though. Those look like welded cylinders to me. Also look pretty long too.

 

[LD1]

Rollback stops should give retracted length...or close. Dump stops give extended length. And if anything, go longer. You don't want the cylinder too short to contact the hard dump stops IMO

 

[handirifle]

The cylinders in the pic above do look pretty long. Would contacting the dump stops be worse than contacting the roll back stops? I definitely want more roll back, currently there is none.

So if there are no dump stops, then do I guess?

Sorry, this is all new to me.

 

[LD1]

Contacting rollback stops is optional.

Hitting dump stops....yes you want to do that.

If not, every time you dump "hard" you are putting a ton of stress on the cylinder cap. Not to mention if you have the bucket dumped all the way and put the cutting edge into the ground to push something (which is a "no no", but I think everyone has done it at some point in time). You want a physical stop to take the stress off the cylinder.

 

[handirifle]

OK I get it. I took a look at it today, and it has stops both ways. The dump stops are a welded bar that crosses the bracket. I do not have time currently to disconnect the bucket and measure, but that makes a HUGE difference for me when it comes time to order new cylinders. At least now I know what to look for and what to measure.

Since these are NOT anywhere close to originals, any guesses on what capabilities I should expect for the new cylinders? Such as rod diameter, and bore size?

 

[LD1]

The 1010 and 1014 loader are pretty small.

Whats the current cylinder size? Bore and stroke? I cant see needing a real big cylinder. Maybe 1.5" max diameter. My L3400 (which was a good bit bigger tractor) had 1.77" cylinders.

Baileynet that I linked earlier has a LOT of 1.5" cylinders with 1" rods. Stroke lengths from 12" to 24" in 2" increments. I'd see which one of those would be closest to working.

@ 2500PSI each cylinder can retract with 2500# or so of force. So thats quite a bit of rollback force even accounting for the geometry of the loader.

 

[handirifle]

LD1
Thanks, that helps. I will check the current ones and see what they are. Am I correct in assuming, that smaller ones move faster, but have less power? That would make sense to me.

OK I went out and did some looking. The existing INCORRECT ones are Spencer #20X12-L 20TC12-112, all 4 of them. Assuming CT12 means 12" stroke, and that's what it measures, extended, but that leaves about 1-2" short of the dump stops. The name tag does list working PSI at 2500. Based on this I assume the 2 for the main arm are too short also, possibly.

The rod is either 1" or 1 1/16", I didn't put caliper on it, but can when ordering date gets closer.