MF4610

[custom farmer]

Is there any one else that has a 4610 yet? More reviews, or opinions please.

I own a MF 4610 for about 8 months now. I bought it from a JD dealer with 96hours on it. In some ways it has been a great tractor, but it is not perfect.
Here is a list of pros and cons from about 150 hours of use, mainly with loader work or round baling:

PROS
* Controls and levers positioned very nicely

* Hydraulics are fast, especially on the loader

* Tractor is about right for hp to weight ratio

* No emissions maintenance

* Cooling system is more than adequate to keep the engine cool in hot weather under full load

* Heater works very well

*Nice progression of speed thru all the gears.

*Frame, chassis, 3 point, built heavy and strong.

CONS
* 3 cylinder engine has an awful lot of vibration and is noisy. Depending on load (if you lug the engine down some), and at just the right rpms, everything in the whole cab vibrates to such an extent that I have spent hours searching for ways to tighten things and to find ways to minimize noise, to no avail.

* Cab is very noisy, see above

* Air conditioning is weak, cannot keep up in normal conditions

* Engine has very low power until it is fully warmed up. I think this is controlled on purpose by the engine computer.

* Engine is made in China. While Agco bought Sisu in Finland, and Sisu designed this engine and it bears the Sisu name - Agco built a new factory in China just to build these engines for the 4600 series. So the tractor is made by Iseki in Japan, but the engine is made in China with the Sisu name

* Really dislike the transmission. Granted, I put thousands of hours on tractors with hydro transmissions, and my last one was an advanced 6 speed hydro (so I am biased) - this transmission is NOT user friendly. 1. It is VERY hard to shift. When speeding up or down I can almost never get it into 4th on the first try. 5th is better, 6th always feels like it only goes in halfway, and I have had it pop out. 2. The power shuttle is a great idea but is not smooth. Especially if you do anything with the clutch. If you are in an open space and just shuttle it isn't bad. But if you ease into a spot, press the clutch, shuttle the lever, and then let the clutch out - there is a delay where nothing happens and then it engages from 0% to 100% in an instant, causing violent jerks. 3. The clutch has no sweet spot. It is all electronic and although it moves quite a distance, it goes from 0% to 100% in about 1/2" travel. Also, if you try to feather it all the tractor makes you deaf with an ear splitting warning beep and it says you are riding the clutch pedal. You almost cannot back up to a piece of equipment without it doing this to you. 4. All of the problems with the transmission described above are worse in cold weather.

* Rear hydraulics - 1.They do not have float function on the levers. Dealer said it wasn't available when I bought mine, but is now. 2.The rear couplers are not push/pull connect. They have no break away either. If your implement unhooks you will damage something. You also CANNOT disconnect or connect anything under even a slight pressure. Having no float on the levers makes it worse. You must stop tractor and jiggle lever to depressurize so you can unhook.

* Front headlight shrouds are cheap plastic and fell off. Warranty replaced them but dealer made me pay shipping. New ones they sent are somewhat improved design. Still cheap plastic.

* Fuel tank is WAY too small. 24 gallons on a 90 horse tractor? get real. I can kill the tank in about 8 or 9 hours with my round baler in normal load conditions. There are actually two tanks with one fill point and the connector between is small. That means you fill real slow and wait for fuel to siphon to other tank and then top it off again, repeat about 6 times to get tank full.

* Too many error codes. Engine has given me a number of different error codes, mainly with fuel system. Had dealer here with computers to try to resolve. Fiddled around half a day to diagnose. Had to pay next day air charges on a part from Agco in the middle of hay season. Got problems resolved that time but ever since tractor has noticeably less torque. Plus warranty paid for only 30 minutes of the service guy's time, and no travel charges. (my dealer is not real close.) Now just today it threw another error code about fuel system, different one this time. Still unresolved.

* Starts hard in cold weather. The tractor has no block heater and no glow plugs. It has a lame air intake heater which is mostly worthless. If it gets below 20 degrees F you will have some trouble getting it running. It has always started but sometimes took multiple attempts.

So there you have it. That's where I'm at. I don't know how all of this compares to JD, Kubota, or NH. I think the others may not be any better if you compare $$ and hp. Kubota is known to have undersized cooling systems and their engines always overheat (personal experience), NH is known to have poor ground speeds and poor control layouts, JD also is known to have some issues, especially in the E series, and is usually more $$.
Would I buy Massey again, probably, but I will never buy a 3 cylinder this size again. There is just no way a 3 cylinder can run as quiet and smooth as a 4, 5, or 6. My choice would be the 5600 series with the 4 cylinder Sisu actually made in Finland with the Dyna 4 transmission. Totally European tractor, not Japan and China. Way better cab. If you can afford it, definitely step up...
PA farmer

 

[red501]

HAVE A NEW 4610 (75 HRS)...GOOD HAY TRACTOR BUT AC WILL NOT KEEP UP AND VERY NOISY CAB. NOT HAPPY

 

[SDT]

I would like more information about the loader valve problem. JWR.

I have a 2012, 2635 with DL250. It too will not power the bucket tip down. I mentioned this to my dealer when the tractor was just over a year old and they told me "The loader is only warranted for 12 months." Of course, I was not told that when I bought the tractor/FEL and, though I asked, I was not given a copy of the warranty, which is not printed in the owners manual.

 

[TSO]

I would like more information about the loader valve problem. JWR.

I have a 2012, 2635 with DL250. It too will not power the bucket tip down. I mentioned this to my dealer when the tractor was just over a year old and they told me "The loader is only warranted for 12 months." Of course, I was not told that when I bought the tractor/FEL and, though I asked, I was not given a copy of the warranty, which is not printed in the owners manual.

What do you mean by "it will not power the bucket tip down"...? And is it every time, or just sometimes?

 

[JWR]

What do you mean by "it will not power the bucket tip down"...? And is it every time, or just sometimes?

If you hold the joystick to the right and keep it there the bucket tip should lower under power with force enough to lift the tractor. As delivered mine would not lower the bucket tip at all except by gravity. The loader valve was defective from the NIMCO factory via MF and so were supposed new ones in the AGCO supply chain. Eventually I got hold of NIMCO, they gladly sent me a kit to alter the loader valve (which was easy to put in in 15 minutes) and it is fine now. The failure was not sometimes, it was permanent all the time. Now it works every time. On larger tractors there is a pain in the *** "detent" that works to unload the bucket quicker. One has to understand that detent and get it out of the picture before powering down the tip of the bucket. We'd all be better off if the detents did not exist.

 

[arksdad]

I have to wonder what a JD dealer is doing with a Massey tractor that only has 96 hours on it! To me that would be a red flag.

 

[JWR]

I have to wonder what a JD dealer is doing with a Massey tractor that only has 96 hours on it! To me that would be a red flag.

I agree with you. The red flag has to say that the prior owner was unhappy with it for some reason. While dealers always refuse to reveal the name and phone of previous owners they MIGHT if you ask them to get his permission. If they still refuse, it would be worth some sleuth work to get hold of the prior owner. I have friends who have a new 4608 and others have reported these same issues: 1) The steering is not robust. The front wheels won't turn in mud with a heavy bale on the front I am told. Two dealers have confirmed that report plus a user near me. 2) MF has already said (not sure who all they told, but a dealer told me) that next year (now this year) 4600 series would have more hydraulic flow to the steering by some means. 3) Several have reported shifter issues. One friend has the thing leaping out so harshly using the lever without the clutch that it would do severe damage to loads and to the tractor he thinks. That IS adjustable and he is working it with his dealer. However, I think it is a heck of a commentary that MF (coming out with a power shifter tranny about 15 years after Deere) has the stupidity to not have it extremely polished and without bugs. Maybe such issues caused the prior owner to sell the 4610 early ??

 

[custom farmer]

Actually, the JD dealer did give me the prior owner's name and phone number. I talked with him but he didn't have much to tell me. Said he used it to move bales and run a round baler, but then needed a new round baler. Ended up getting largest round baler JD makes, and told me the 4610 was too small for the baler. Also, he was paying interest on it, while JD had 0% interest, so the JD dealer worked him a great deal on the big baler and about a 120 or 130 horse tractor. I got it for about $10k to $12K less than new price, so he had to lose money.
He wouldn't tell me any specifics of what liked or didn't like on the 4610.

I also talked to the MF dealer where it was purchased. He said the first buyer had never called him one time with any problems or complaints. He even went over to the JD dealer, picked up the 4610, took it to his place and put three factory updates on it and changed the oil for me, and then dropped it back off at JD for me to pick up! All at no charge! How's that for service?

The last error code turned out to be a defective fuel pressure sensor. It now has a little over 250 hours.
PA custom Farmer

 

[JWR]

Hey, that sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Wobblin-Goblin]

Man, I was "this close" to pulling the trigger on a new 4608 late last fall. Glad I didn't. We've been spoiled with two GREAT tractors from MF (1540 and 1643). I would have had a coronary if I went further into debt for a tractor with that many issues.

 

[JWR]

Man, I was "this close" to pulling the trigger on a new 4608 late last fall. Glad I didn't. We've been spoiled with two GREAT tractors from MF (1540 and 1643). I would have had a coronary if I went further into debt for a tractor with that many issues.

I have been "cautiously optimistic" about the new 4600 series because: 1) They are primarily made, at least assembled, in Japan where your 1500 and 1600 series were made which has my vote over Brazil 2) the majority of serious issues with the 2660 I had were "quality control" in one form or another letting stuff out of the factory that should not have been shipped. My cautious optimism is based on the Japanese doing a better job of Quality Control and pre-shipment testing. Also, a GOOD dealer makes all the difference in the world. Other users report problems to some degree from every manufacturer. Sharing info (like right here) helps a lot I think.

 

[SDT]

That is exactly what mine does. I spoke to my dealer about this last week and relayed your information about defective NIMCO valves. He spoke to both MF (absolutely no help) and NIMCO, who told him that they had problems with "5 or 6" valves but there was no replacement/repair campaign. I would llike to contact NIMCO directly if you will provide the contact information that you have.

Thanks in advance.

SDT

 

[jeepcj7]

If the valve is MF factory installed it is a Iseki made valve. the Iseki valve has a fast dump position when you move the joystick clear to the right. Basically it combines oil from the valve with return oil from the cylinder and lets the bucket dump faster - it is helpful when dumping heavy bucket loads of material at lower engine speeds. Essentially it helps keep the bucket cylinders from caviting (getting spongy). For tractors that did not get a factory installed valve, there is a feild installed NIMCO valve. The NIMCO valve acts the same way but it DOES not combine oil from the valve with the return oil from the bucket cylinders. In either case, you will not get dowm pressure in the fast dump (or regeneration) position because the rod and barrel ports on the bucket cylinders are open to each other. There is no NIMCO valve option on the 4600 Series.

 

[TSO]

If the valve is MF factory installed it is a Iseki made valve. the Iseki valve has a fast dump position when you move the joystick clear to the right. Basically it combines oil from the valve with return oil from the cylinder and lets the bucket dump faster - it is helpful when dumping heavy bucket loads of material at lower engine speeds. Essentially it helps keep the bucket cylinders from caviting (getting spongy). For tractors that did not get a factory installed valve, there is a feild installed NIMCO valve. The NIMCO valve acts the same way but it DOES not combine oil from the valve with the return oil from the bucket cylinders. In either case, you will not get dowm pressure in the fast dump (or regeneration) position because the rod and barrel ports on the bucket cylinders are open to each other. There is no NIMCO valve option on the 4600 Series.

Good post. Is this the same with all of the Iseki made MF's ? Sometimes when doing a lot of loader work and I never quite get to full dump to fully regen the circuit, I come down with spongy bucket syndrome too. :-(

Only way to relieve it is to pop two blue pills. Lol, I mean, fully dump the bucket to compete the circuit.

 

[JWR]

I sent the Nimco contact info to you (to SDT) in a message (not a post.) Were you able to get hold of them? Result ?

 

[JWR]

The loader valves I know about that have the "quick gravity dump" feature are intended to provide the quick gravity-based bucket dump only if you go past a detent to the right. If you stop just short of the detent and yet hold the joystick over there they will force the bucket tip down (enough to lift the tractor front end off the ground.) My MF 2660 is certainly that way (once you get the loader valve fixed!) I doubt that any manufacturer intentionally omits the ability to force the bucket tip down. That should not be mutually exclusive with the quick dump ability. For my 2 cents I would FAR rather have a simple loader valve that does what I tell it to every time instead of complex added features like the quick dump. To me the detent is a pain in the butt even when working as intended.

 

[SDT]

I sent the Nimco contact info to you (to SDT) in a message (not a post.) Were you able to get hold of them? Result ?

Thanks, JWR. I just found it.

I've never looked into the messages folder before.

SDT

 

[Skyfish25]

I picked up a new 4610 in September 2014. It had a few updates that I see were mentioned. One, I did get the one optional valve with float. Needed( or wanted badly)for disc mower. It also has the new loader, the bigger one, early models had a Sioux brand. All new have the brand the bigger tractors have. All smaller have Sioux brand. It is heavy, and nice. Mine was first or second to come out with it.
I also have the 18.4/30, same height as the 16/34. But more width and sidewall. Front tire is same with either option.
I am coming from two internationals, a 656 hydro with turbo, and a 826. So the cab is nice, yes a little loud.
No shifter issues, and the shifter I beleve is higher, ie longer shift handle.
My tractor has 330 lb weight in the rear tires and weighs 9200 with bucket off the loader. Not counting me.

Some pros: * strong 80 hp engine IMO
* comfortable cab, but too small for 2
* heavy three point, seems robust
* hydraulics seem strong and fast, can lift 5x6 bale at 1400rpm no problem. I don't like to stear not moving(it will do it)Hydraulics move/work better after warmed up.
* I feel transmission is smooth, both shifting and hi/lo
* no trouble with ac or cooling yet, heat is nice to have. (See tractors above, no cab)
Cons:
* engine is a bit noisy. Purrs above 1600rpm.
* 4 wheel disengage is a beast to pull.
* would like wider front tire and bigger fuel tank.

I really wanted a CVT but this is my hobby and this tractor will do anything I ask. 6 row planter, 7 ft woods PSS. Hay. I'm taking it in for first dealer service, but only issue is no dash lights. Maybe disconnected when installed radio. Want dealer to check front dif and oil on first service. But that's me.

 

[JWR]

What is the loader model number ? I'm not familiar with the Sioux terminology. Mine on a 2660 is a DL250 and (probably during mistreatment, uprooting locust tree) I twisted the frame some and had the bucket as much as 3 or 4 inches off from level at tip end. [Used same mistreatment in reverse to straighten it !] Had wished I had a DL260 but now not convinced it is that much stronger a frame, mostly bigger hyd cylinders. I see the newer ones incl. 4610's have 931X loaders with hoses inside the frame, etc. Looking at the business end, I'm not sure it is any stronger than the older ones. Mine has the skid-steer adapter which is the only way to go for a wide variety of attachments up front BUT it is weak compared to Kubota. Kubota was years ahead in going to the skid-steer loader attachment interface.
So far as I can find NONE of the tractor mfrs publish (or even seem to HAVE) torsion data on their loaders. What will they stand in torsion ? Cut and try as I did I guess.

 

[Skyfish25]

Mine is the 931X, sounds like you work the loader more. I use mine mostly for bale moving. When I pull stumps up n out, I use the 3 point. And if they are big, an excavator. I working real job and out of town. Or I'd post some pics.

I have found for hay fields, I can flush cut trees, grind stumps. (Make sure and treat stumps and let sit day or two). In 3 years, can chisel and stumps are decayed.