MIG inverter advantage?

[jbwilson]

Appologies if this qustion has been dealt with before on TBN. All things being equal, is an inverter MIG welder easier/better/neater than a transformer welder for welding thin sheet metal (eg car panels)? Is the difference as great as that between an inverter and a transformer stick welder? I recently used an inverter stick welder and was impressed over its lightness and welding smoothness over my transformer welder and was wondering if I would see the same degree of improvement for MIG welding light steel panels.

Thank you

 

[Shield Arc]

I've never done auto body type welding. There was a time in my life where I thought 3/8-inch thick material was sheet metal. These inverters just amaze me!:cool2: The control they have over the puddle just floors me. For years I had a Linde VI-206 transformer Mig welder. It had variable inductance control. That was really sweet! You could dry the puddle up for out of position welding, or wet the puddle out for flat welding. I thought that was the best thing since chocolate ice cream:laughing:. Then I bought a Lincoln V350-Pro with pulse. Now this machine is totally amazing!:thumbsup:
Here is a 16-GA aluminum outside corner joint done with a spool gun, ran with pulse.

 

[roadhunter]

I like the inverters for stick welding but the mig takes some getting used to IMO. The old Miller transformer mig I have is so easy to weld with. Flip up the cover and the settings to get you close are right there. Then a little fine tuning and you are ready to go.

 

[smalltown]

jbwilson I hope I am not ruining your thread. If so I would gladly ask the moderator to move my question.

I would like to ask if inverter mig welders have been around for enough time to prove their reliability?
I see that the new Lincoln 210MP is an inverter machine verses the Miller 211 that apparently is a transformer machine.
Something that I wonder about (without having any knowledge about) is the cost of repair for the electronics in the inverter machines, are they big bucks compared to a transformer machine?
Would either type of machine be considered bullet proof?
It does seem like more and more inverter machines are coming to market.

 

[jbwilson]

I've never done auto body type welding. There was a time in my life where I thought 3/8-inch thick material was sheet metal:

Ha - in my town 3/8-inch steel is foil! No, not really in Australia's capital city where people sit at a desk all day long. Your welder is too high end for our needs/pocket. We're thinking more of an equivalent to a Lincoln 180C and its inverter version. If I understand correctly, a pulse function gives you a better chance of eliminating weld blow through on thin metals and that may be the determining factor for buying an inverter.

John

 

[jbwilson]

Roadhunter - Thank you. My MIG experience is limited to using some high end machines several years ago at a tech college (with the aim of achieving proper penetration in 5.0+mm sections) and very recently with a very cheap transformer MIG machine which was ok providing you didn't weld anything more than 2.0mm and less than 1.6mm. So hoping that a good quality light industrial welder will be fine for 0.8 - 1.0mm sheet metal after a bit of practice.

 

[jbwilson]

Smalltown - I welcome your question. Hoping that TBNers experience with inverters is that they last well beyond their warranty period. John

 

[Shield Arc]

With auto body welding, I understand it's more about technique than the welder. I've seen where they use a series of small tacks. Sometimes they weld solid between tacks, sometimes not. Just use bondo to fill in between the tacks.
If possible they will use a copper or aluminum heat sink behind the panel to absorb the heat.

 

[Arc weld]

Inverters use less power but transformers have been used for auto body for decades. I much preferred a Miller Dimension 452 transformer to a Miller XMT 304 inverter for MIG welding root passes on pipe. One of the instructors at the tech school also said he preferred the schools older Hobart transformers to the XMT's. He said you could get the arc to what ever you wanted on the old Hobarts. It was almost like the arc on the XMT was too smooth. I think maybe there's a learning curve to an inverter coming from a transformer. The one shop I worked in that converted to the XMT's did have more problems with "piping" (elongated porosity) when they switched to the XMT's. Roots looked good and seemed to go in nice but x-rays don't lie.

 

[jbwilson]

Shield Arc - Thank you. Yes, hoping to be able to stitch weld car panels using one inch stringers and gather that would only be achievable with a good machine and a bit of practice. I want the welder to cope with other chores with steel up to 3.0mm, maybe even 4.0mm if I can find something that versatile within our budget. I'll use a stick welder for anything thicker. Just from experience a cheap MIG welder cannot even tack weld anything thinner than 1.0mm without blow through or playing up. In order to weld thin sheet metal it is best if the welder has 1) a low output around 30amps - available on both transformer and inverter welders and 2) a pulse function - only available on inverter machines. Which one has more influence on ease of welding thin stock? Our budget is up to aud$2,000 but would prefer to spend less. In Australia, $1,200 will get you a Lincoln 180c, which meets the requirements of 1) but if the pulse function significantly added to ease of use we would up the ante.

 

[Big Barn]

jbwilson, I have a Miller XMT350 (inverter) but haven't been able to find a decent price for the Optima pulsing pendant ($1500+ new price ) which I would need to be able to pulse mig.
The Millermatic 350P has a built in pulser.
Don't know if this info helps or not...

Terry

 

[jbwilson]

Arc weld and Big Barn. Thank you. The MIGs you mention are very expensive here e.g. a Miller XMT 350 pulse with no accessories cost about aud $8,000 and the nearest outlet for high end welders is in Sydney which is 300 kms away. I should have mentioned that we're only looking at a decent hobbyist welder rather than a proper commercial grade welder.

 

[Shield Arc]

JB I'm really the last guy on the planet who should give advice on welding thin material. Even tho I worked in a sheet metal shop for 3-years, I never did much sheet metal welding. Same shop I welded up to 4-inch thick material. I feel more comfortable running hot and fast!:cool2:
This is my idea of a Mig weld, with .035" wire.

 

[Mysfyt]

I own both types. For thin sheet metal, the old Miller 200 (transformer) is the go to machine. If you can find one of these used for a decent price, jump on it! Probably Millers most coveted machine. If you can find a used transformer type in either Miller or Lincoln, they are pretty much bulletproof. There are other brands also(Hobart, ESAB, etc) that may fit for you, but I've only owned M's and L's. Not saying an inverter is NG, but a decent used transformer type would be easier on the budget.

 

[Big Barn]

My "go to" migs are a Thermal Arc 210'(transformer) set up with .035 wire and a TA 181i (inverter) set up with .023 wire. Both have spool guns and work equally well on sheet metal. No pulse though. These types would work well for your budget, I think.




Terry

 

[jbwilson]

Thank you all. I think we have a few welders in mind now. My understanding is that while the Thermal Arc name isn't known in Australia (as far as I know), some of its models are rebadged here under the Cigweld name. Over here the TA 181i is called Cigweld W1005175 175 amp Transmig 175i Inverter and costs around $1,200 including accessories and is a serious contender for our needs. We'll forego the pulse function, its too expensive, and just rely on good old skill which we maybe able to acquire after lots of practice.

 

[jbwilson]

JB I'm really the last guy on the planet who should give advice on welding thin material. Even tho I worked in a sheet metal shop for 3-years, I never did much sheet metal welding. Same shop I welded up to 4-inch thick material. I feel more comfortable running hot and fast!:cool2:
This is my idea of a Mig weld, with .035" wire.

Shield Arc that is a very neat weld - I can barely make out the Cs. I never achieved that quality when I was using our tech school's MIGs. If I do a fillet weld using stick on a piece that thick, I really have to concentrate on wetting the edges and pushing up the puddle with the electrode otherwise my welding starts to splutter and I end up with weld dags and heaps of slag inclusions.

 

[ericher69]

Shield Arc that is a very neat weld - I can barely make out the Cs. I never achieved that quality when I was using our tech school's MIGs. If I do a fillet weld using stick on a piece that thick, I really have to concentrate on wetting the edges and pushing up the puddle with the electrode otherwise my welding starts to splutter and I end up with weld dags and heaps of slag inclusions.

You can't make out the C's cause it's spray transfer...

Sent from my iPhone 5s 64Gb using TractorByNet

 

[IslandTractor]

You can't make out the C's cause it's spray transfer... Sent from my iPhone 5s 64Gb using TractorByNet

Love spray transfer! Wish it were possible with smaller welders. Makes you feel like a pro!!

 

[jbwilson]

You can't make out the C's cause it's spray transfer...

Oh I C: D. I was wondering about the 29 volts chalked on the work. Thank you, I have heard of spray transfer but didn't know what is was about.

John