Mig or stick?

   / Mig or stick? #71  
Some great posts!
Not really the topic of the OP, but on-topic to the MIG or Stick ‘title’. ;) ;)

There's a big difference between someone training to be a professional weldor and a home weldor who simply wants to repair things quickly.

Most certainly!

Tractor sub-forum serves members who have a broken item or a specific project. Most questions are in this realm, very few have pro-level questions or needs.
 
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   / Mig or stick? #72  
Guess I'll chime in here...

As a little background I learned to weld in high school around 2001ish. We did the OA-stick-mig-tig route and I guess that's why I feel it's best (I will elaborate a bit later). My dad had a lincoln ac tombstone at home that I used a few times then he bought a little harbor freight 120 mig eventually specifically for sheet metal work and I didn't care much for it.

When I was around 20 was when I first got into industrial maintenance and have been doing it since. My first job they had a couple lincoln tombstones with the big crank on them and I did a ton of welding with that in the couple years I worked there. My next (and current job) had a giant 3 phase lincoln welder that I believe was a 3 phase motor coupled to a dc generator and I did a ton of welding with it. 7 or 8 years ago I bought a lincoln idealarc tig/stick machine for myself and have built quite a few home projects with it. A few years ago we got a mig at work (xmt with a wire feeder).

My point is, in high school I wasn't great at stick but could get by. I at that time thought mig was great, but until recently didn't have a lot of exposure to it so I became quite proficient with stick. I still feel far more confident in my stick welds as it's difficult to make a bad weld look good. That's the problem I see with learning (from knowing nothing about welding) with mig, and the main point of my story- If you don't know what you're doing you can easily make bad welds that look good and you think you are the greatest weldor in the world and you will tell your buddies to bring over their 25k gooseneck trailers over so you can repair the frame for them.

Some here may remember that a few months ago I purchased a miller multimatic 215 so I could have mig capabilities at home for thinner work where tig is just not practical. I am quite happy with it and it has the power to cover most of my needs but I have every intention of keeping my stick welder for thicker stuff just because I am still more confident in my stick abilities... maybe it's because I'm out of practice with mig, I'm not sure.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but mig was not developed for it's superior weld quality, it was because it's cheaper to run and faster so for production work there is a huge cost savings.

Wow that got long fast, If you made it through thank you for reading.
 
   / Mig or stick? #73  
Mike
Some outstandng points you made for those that are open to them.
Thanks
 
   / Mig or stick? #74  
I still feel far more confident in my stick welds as it's difficult to make a bad weld look good. That's the problem I see with learning (from knowing nothing about welding) with mig, and the main point of my story- If you don't know what you're doing you can easily make bad welds that look good and you think you are the greatest weldor in the world and you will tell your buddies to bring over their 25k gooseneck trailers over so you can repair the frame for them.

Similar risk for the lugnuts on this 25k gooseneck... perhaps more risk. Along withmany other aspects in the decision to couple a 25,000lb gooseneck and drive amongst the baby strollers etc. With all things mechanical there must be a certain modicum of correctness of all aspects, right? A weld done correctly is just one of them, and its not “ mig-or-stick” ? Keep in mind 99% of the trailers youll ever see are MIG’d except for the DIYs. Think about THAT for a moment.:shocked:

Where welding is concerned it can be a problem because usually only one set of eyes is watching the action. Even in a commercial welding shop. The welder has to make sure both sides of the weld joint are melting. There is a code word “ puddle control “ that is used by those - in the know - ? Who often speak as if puddle control is a dark art or a rite of passage. Or a pissing contest. Those who dont know to dont ask (to save face). And so it goes, the mystery continues.

Keep in mind many welders learn puddle control without instruction or even using the term, so it cant be that complicated. Although with (qualified) instruction welding will be stronger, successful, sooner. I never had an instructor and would like to know if there was anything Im doing that could be done better. My uphill welding could benefit from proper instruction!!!
 
   / Mig or stick? #75  
Sodo, the key point in what you are saying is "with proper instruction." I've been around enough people in life to realize not many people (those on this forum excluded) care to learn to do things right. They just want something that will make them think they know what they are doing... and mig welders provide that. When making my decision to buy my multimatic I read many reviews on other welders and I couldn't count how many people said "I've never welded in my life and the first time I tried this I laid a perfect bead!" Nobody ever said that about stick welding, I guarantee it... learning to stick weld will humble a person and seperate those who want to learn to weld from those that just want to "get something repaired."

So first someone weld their mower deck and it doesn't break so they must be pretty good... next their gate breaks- now they're REALLY good and they're ready to tackle anything!
 
   / Mig or stick? #76  
Guess I'll chime in here...

As a little background I learned to weld in high school around 2001ish. We did the OA-stick-mig-tig route and I guess that's why I feel it's best (I will elaborate a bit later). My dad had a lincoln ac tombstone at home that I used a few times then he bought a little harbor freight 120 mig eventually specifically for sheet metal work and I didn't care much for it.

When I was around 20 was when I first got into industrial maintenance and have been doing it since. My first job they had a couple lincoln tombstones with the big crank on them and I did a ton of welding with that in the couple years I worked there. My next (and current job) had a giant 3 phase lincoln welder that I believe was a 3 phase motor coupled to a dc generator and I did a ton of welding with it. 7 or 8 years ago I bought a lincoln idealarc tig/stick machine for myself and have built quite a few home projects with it. A few years ago we got a mig at work (xmt with a wire feeder).

My point is, in high school I wasn't great at stick but could get by. I at that time thought mig was great, but until recently didn't have a lot of exposure to it so I became quite proficient with stick. I still feel far more confident in my stick welds as it's difficult to make a bad weld look good. That's the problem I see with learning (from knowing nothing about welding) with mig, and the main point of my story- If you don't know what you're doing you can easily make bad welds that look good and you think you are the greatest weldor in the world and you will tell your buddies to bring over their 25k gooseneck trailers over so you can repair the frame for them.

Some here may remember that a few months ago I purchased a miller multimatic 215 so I could have mig capabilities at home for thinner work where tig is just not practical. I am quite happy with it and it has the power to cover most of my needs but I have every intention of keeping my stick welder for thicker stuff just because I am still more confident in my stick abilities... maybe it's because I'm out of practice with mig, I'm not sure.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but mig was not developed for it's superior weld quality, it was because it's cheaper to run and faster so for production work there is a huge cost savings.

Wow that got long fast, If you made it through thank you for reading.

Once you feel more comfortable with that new mig machine you will find yourself using it more than your stick or tig. I have done a lot of different types of welding, everything from nasty maintenance shipyards to precision mil spec. bench work and for general maintenance and fabrication I'll just grab the mig 90% of the time. I have one machine I keep set up with some .030 bare wire and I can weld some real thin sheet metal or 3/8'' plate just by turning a couple of knobs, simple, easy, fast and clean. And no chipping hammer and wire brush required.
 
   / Mig or stick? #77  
Once you feel more comfortable with that new mig machine you will find yourself using it more than your stick or tig. I have done a lot of different types of welding, everything from nasty maintenance shipyards to precision mil spec. bench work and for general maintenance and fabrication I'll just grab the mig 90% of the time. I have one machine I keep set up with some .030 bare wire and I can weld some real thin sheet metal or 3/8'' plate just by turning a couple of knobs, simple, easy, fast and clean. And no chipping hammer and wire brush required.
I don't doubt what you say one bit, I don't feel that mig is inferior in any way and it is far more convenient... that's why I bought one afterall. I just feel that someone with no welding knowledge and no instruction of any kind can quickly develop "beer muscles" with mig and not even realize that they aren't making sound welds.
 
   / Mig or stick? #78  
I'll agree that I'm probably seeing a lot more welds messed up by guys using mig welders than stick, probably for the same reason crappy carpenters can screw up more jobs with a nail gun than a hammer, too much ammo in the hands of an amature.
 
   / Mig or stick? #79  
Nailgun is another good analogy. You dont see it behind the drywall. You dont see the bad Stick welds cuz nobody shows them (no pics).

Heres one weld on my 20year old dump trailer. Poorly done, obviously. The whole trailer is MIG. It welds a stake into a pocket. The left side looks OK as well as the rest of the welds (there are hundreds).

42FDB62D-F879-4A16-99BF-990BF78ABA28.jpeg


B3F61FE1-832A-4349-B421-109F6EBF882E.jpeg

Heres the left side.

B156B8D9-94C9-4FBF-BA3F-F04B4F1FE5DE.jpeg

Miggin’ in the wind! Dangit. Not a critical weld, and hundred times stronger- paint will cure its ills. :D

23A7DEB5-B72F-4563-A583-542B97568EEF.jpeg

Its a little bit of a mystery how such an easy weld could be done so wrong,,,, dont you think? But consider a commercial welding situation. Friday afternoon or Monday morning. Or at 1:30pm after a liquid lunch. What percentage of welders are doing a poor job on 1% of their welds? Contrast this to the hobbyist who grinds a serviceable weld out simply because someone might see it. Or because hes unable to assess the serviceability of a weld.
 
   / Mig or stick? #80  
I’m not sure how a nail gun leads to a worse job other than the fact screws would be better. Nail gun to hammer I’m not understanding the point. I’m going to argue the other side of this one since the nail gun doesn’t beat everything out of wack. Also there’s a lot less chance of surface damage with a nail gun.
 

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