dragoneggs
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Really? Who is better?
Miller warranty
- Thread starter mx842
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I've not seen anything to suggest the owner screwed up. With that understood, I am surprised Miller didn't' help.
My shop is 100% Miller, but even so I don't do the "brand jihad" thing. I don't care whether it is Blue or purple or red or yellow or magenta. If someone came along with better I'd take it and never look back. The #1 thing I look at is long-term service. I've been doing this for 20 years. I don't care much for 'right now', I care for 'right forever', though I know nothing is forever. But 'reasonably in the future' is high on my list.
Show me where the OP screwed up and I will change my opinion. But I will give benefit of the doubt to the consumer every time. Miller has won dollars from my firm because of their reputation. Ding that and there is little reason for me to give them that benefit.
Respectfully...
Scooby074
Super Member
Awful dealer.. Just awful.
In hindsight perhaps it would have been better to get Miller involved BEFORE first contact with the warranty depot. Thats generally how I approach it.
I guess from Millers perspective they didnt authorize the repair depot to do all the unnecessary stuff they did like changing the liner etc. so they wont pay for that part of the service because it wasnt germane to the defective switch. Bad troubleshooting on the part of the repair site
Take them up on their offer of a new switch. I doubt you'll find one that is correct at Lowes.
Again, just a really crappy dealer experience.
In hindsight perhaps it would have been better to get Miller involved BEFORE first contact with the warranty depot. Thats generally how I approach it.
I guess from Millers perspective they didnt authorize the repair depot to do all the unnecessary stuff they did like changing the liner etc. so they wont pay for that part of the service because it wasnt germane to the defective switch. Bad troubleshooting on the part of the repair site
Take them up on their offer of a new switch. I doubt you'll find one that is correct at Lowes.
Again, just a really crappy dealer experience.
dragoneggs
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I'm not a 'brand jihad' guy either but there is definitely 'something' behind a brand. I may have not got the total gist of this thread but I am thinking the manufacturer (Miller in this case) has not had a fair chance to make it right yet. Often when you first approach a company, the story isn't communicated/understood so elevating the issue is necessary for a resolution that the customer expects. Remember the first contact is probably someone that does not have the authority to 'make it right'. The flip side is that many 'consumers' fraudulently take advantage of situations that end up costing the 'good' manufacturers that stand behind their product. Quality is part of why a commodity costs more but also service... whether deserved or not. Please don't take this post wrong as I am definitely on the side of the OP and my guess is that Miller will make it right.
Arc weld
Veteran Member
I'm not sure if Miller or the Miller rep has had enough time to correct it either
It usually doesn't happen overnight but a good rep or someone at Miller should at least be able to give an answer and/or reason why it isn't warranty. Give them a chance. Remember that Miller has literally a million machines out there. You might have to make some follow up calls. If you have the name of the person you talked to helps a lot. The shop may have had the machine for a while but Miller might not have ever been contacted. You're not going to find a switch for a welder at HD.
It usually doesn't happen overnight but a good rep or someone at Miller should at least be able to give an answer and/or reason why it isn't warranty. Give them a chance. Remember that Miller has literally a million machines out there. You might have to make some follow up calls. If you have the name of the person you talked to helps a lot. The shop may have had the machine for a while but Miller might not have ever been contacted. You're not going to find a switch for a welder at HD.
Walkin Horse
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Welding stores, just as everybody else,are scrambling for business. Sometimes I hate to see our salesman come in the shop because of the stupid junk he's peddling.
The idea that he changed your liner and tips was a money maker. They treat everybody like they have deep pockets. I doubt car dealer repair shops are as bad. I have a bobcat that needs repair and I keep putting it off because I know it's gonna be another BOHICA.
The idea that he changed your liner and tips was a money maker. They treat everybody like they have deep pockets. I doubt car dealer repair shops are as bad. I have a bobcat that needs repair and I keep putting it off because I know it's gonna be another BOHICA.
OP
mx842
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OK OK....before this get's out of control and turns into a trash fest on miller just let me be clear that I can understand why miller may have handled this the way they did. Basically all they have to go on is what their warranty service center says they found. And yes, the first guy I talked to at miller dropped the ball and didn't follow up on this like he said he would but that is all too common in today's business world. I probably should have called back the next day rather than wait another week to call. The second guy did like he said he would; actually I think it was the same guy I had talked to before cause he was really Johnny on the spot when he looked at the notes posted for the SN. Regardless of that he called me back about 3 hours later to tell me what the service center had said and that he would cover the switch but not the labor to do all that other stuff they did or didn't have to do. He told me he was sending them a switch to replace the the broken one and if there was anything else he could do just yell.
When I got the welder back I pulled the cover off to see what was going on and the switch was indeed broken but the wire going to it didn't seem to be out of place. I had placed a heavy wire tie on it and attached it to a screw already on the machine to hold it in place to keep the heavy wire from pulling on the switch in case the wire slipped in the wire clamp where the wire entered the machine. That wire tie had been removed and what the service shop guy said caused the switch to break. He said Miller doesn't tie the wire off inside the machine like this so in his view it was installed incorrectly.
The service shop never called Miller to try to get the switch covered. He took it on his own that Miller would not cover it because it had the wrong cord on it. Note to self.....If you ever have a machine that is still under warranty take the long cord off before you take it in for warranty service.
The rest of the stuff they did was just a fishing expedition to get as much bang for their buck as they could. I guess they figured with a machine like that he can afford it! My argument here has never really been with Miller it has been with the shop doing the work. Although I do believe that there should be more places to take a machine like this to if you need service than just two places in an area this size. In fact I think anybody that stocks and sells these machines should have to be service centers. That way the selling dealer would have more interest in keeping their customers happy.
Oh...and yes you can get a switch just like the one in this machine at Lowes, HD or any electrical all it is, is a 240v 4 pole box switch. I was looking at one at Lowes yesterday for $32.00.
When I got the welder back I pulled the cover off to see what was going on and the switch was indeed broken but the wire going to it didn't seem to be out of place. I had placed a heavy wire tie on it and attached it to a screw already on the machine to hold it in place to keep the heavy wire from pulling on the switch in case the wire slipped in the wire clamp where the wire entered the machine. That wire tie had been removed and what the service shop guy said caused the switch to break. He said Miller doesn't tie the wire off inside the machine like this so in his view it was installed incorrectly.
The service shop never called Miller to try to get the switch covered. He took it on his own that Miller would not cover it because it had the wrong cord on it. Note to self.....If you ever have a machine that is still under warranty take the long cord off before you take it in for warranty service.
The rest of the stuff they did was just a fishing expedition to get as much bang for their buck as they could. I guess they figured with a machine like that he can afford it! My argument here has never really been with Miller it has been with the shop doing the work. Although I do believe that there should be more places to take a machine like this to if you need service than just two places in an area this size. In fact I think anybody that stocks and sells these machines should have to be service centers. That way the selling dealer would have more interest in keeping their customers happy.
Oh...and yes you can get a switch just like the one in this machine at Lowes, HD or any electrical all it is, is a 240v 4 pole box switch. I was looking at one at Lowes yesterday for $32.00.
Arc weld
Veteran Member
It's very hard to know what's going on without knowing all the facts. There was nothing wrong with putting a longer cord on it as acknowledged directly by Miller. If everybody that was a Miller dealer had to be a service center as well would be a complete and total nightmare!!! What's even worse is that some repair centers undercut the dealers and sell Miller direct to customers while not being authorized to sell Miller direct.
Miller makes good equipment but some of their ways of doing things could use improvement. We had a really good Miller rep up here that left because of the way Miller handled territories. Alberta is a huge, huge market for welding and there are 2 sales reps for central and Northern Alberta. The way Miller has it, two reps can deal with 2 separate companies across the street from each other. There are several dealers selling Miller and the different dealers may or may not have the same sales rep. They try not to step on each other's toes but it's impossible not to sometimes. Not all dealers sell the same other products.
Here's one example why the good sales rep quit. The other rep isn't very good and favors certain dealers. He would undermine one dealer to support one of his faves. A salesman where I used to work went into a shop that bought Hobart(Miller) wire and knew it was serviced by another supplier that had the other Miller/Hobart rep. He wasn't going in there to sell Hobart wire or Miller products. He was selling them bandsaw blades that the other dealer didn't sell. Now what happens when the customer isn't happy with the service they get from the other dealer and love the service they get from this salesman and ask if he can give them a quote on 750lb. drums of Hobart wire? See the problem. There was no exclusive contract with the other supplier. The salesman looked into it and gave the shop a quote. It was a little lower than what they were paying but very close. The other Miller rep got wind of the quote and then gave the other supplier a special deal on the wire so they could sell the wire almost at the cost the new supplier paid. The salesman talked with our Miller rep and went back in with a matching quote and said we would keep stock so it was always available. It's supposed to be about customer service isn't it? The shop wasn't happy with the service they were getting and are the ones who were asking if it was possible to get another quote. The salesman never brought it up. The shop switched wire suppliers, was really happy with the service but the other Miller rep had a BIG Temper Tantrum because he was losing the commission and the other Miller rep was now getting it. He then started going into accounts of the good Miller rep to try and get them to switch to his dealers. That's dirty pool and why most companies give their reps specific territories. Miller lost one of their most knowledgeable reps because of the way they had things set up.
Miller makes good equipment but some of their ways of doing things could use improvement. We had a really good Miller rep up here that left because of the way Miller handled territories. Alberta is a huge, huge market for welding and there are 2 sales reps for central and Northern Alberta. The way Miller has it, two reps can deal with 2 separate companies across the street from each other. There are several dealers selling Miller and the different dealers may or may not have the same sales rep. They try not to step on each other's toes but it's impossible not to sometimes. Not all dealers sell the same other products.
Here's one example why the good sales rep quit. The other rep isn't very good and favors certain dealers. He would undermine one dealer to support one of his faves. A salesman where I used to work went into a shop that bought Hobart(Miller) wire and knew it was serviced by another supplier that had the other Miller/Hobart rep. He wasn't going in there to sell Hobart wire or Miller products. He was selling them bandsaw blades that the other dealer didn't sell. Now what happens when the customer isn't happy with the service they get from the other dealer and love the service they get from this salesman and ask if he can give them a quote on 750lb. drums of Hobart wire? See the problem. There was no exclusive contract with the other supplier. The salesman looked into it and gave the shop a quote. It was a little lower than what they were paying but very close. The other Miller rep got wind of the quote and then gave the other supplier a special deal on the wire so they could sell the wire almost at the cost the new supplier paid. The salesman talked with our Miller rep and went back in with a matching quote and said we would keep stock so it was always available. It's supposed to be about customer service isn't it? The shop wasn't happy with the service they were getting and are the ones who were asking if it was possible to get another quote. The salesman never brought it up. The shop switched wire suppliers, was really happy with the service but the other Miller rep had a BIG Temper Tantrum because he was losing the commission and the other Miller rep was now getting it. He then started going into accounts of the good Miller rep to try and get them to switch to his dealers. That's dirty pool and why most companies give their reps specific territories. Miller lost one of their most knowledgeable reps because of the way they had things set up.
Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
Personally, I wouldn't be too hard on Miller, from a standpoint of the fact they have to rely upon their repair centers evaluation more than the customers, especially since they can see "patterns" of behaviors with certain repair centers if they develop. If they keep seeing a lot of extra billed parts, delayed repairs, etc. or they have customers calling in to complain, it's easy enough to see if they are doing the right job over time and can work directly with the customer to get things resolved, and eventually weed out that repair center if they are not representing the company honestly or fairly. The fact is that they do have to draw a line somewhere, even if they have liberal policies, if they have a bean counter looking over their shoulder as many companies do these days. It does sound shady though on the repair center's end...so in this case it would be best to resolve it between Miller and the Customer...possibly on a cell phone while at the repair center standing in front of the repair supervisor or tech himself...
I remember a similar situation with a customer who called in to tell me a unit did not work. He said he had an electrician install the wiring for him in his house to code etc...It would not powerup at all. So, obviously from some of the details he gave, it was the power switch. Knowing that is not a frequent item of failure, I was trying to add things up. Then he told me that his electrician wanted to talk to me. As soon as he was on the phone the electrician started telling me that the unit was "underwired" for the amps it would draw and that he had rewired the unit correctly. I then asked him what gauge wire he had used, and it was well oversized for what was required, and likely would not easily fit into the powerswitch. I asked him if he was familiar with the NEC article 630. He had not ever heard of it, and said it didn't matter because he had done it for meeting code as the welder wire was undersized. I then explained to him the duty cycle derating etc by the NEC. He said he had never heard of such a thing...Anyway to make a long story short, the electrician had oversized the wire, and then over torqued the screws on the breaker switch on the rear of the unit, cracking the switch and breaking it. He could barely get the wires in to begin with... Once we got to the bottom of the story, the customer who was irate at us initially turned his anger toward his electrician in the end (who refused to even consider that he had made a mistake) after I explained it to customer himself and explained the issue over a series of calls. If memory serves correctly we sent him a new switch instead of sending it in after explaining that warranty repair doesn't usually cover this, but we'd be glad to send him the part at no charge if he wanted to fix it himself which he agreed to. IIRC, I think the electrician finally promised to install it himself and go back to using a smaller cord. Never heard from him again that I know of regarding the issue after we sent the switch.
Anyway, the thing to do, just like you'd do at a repair shop, always ask for the damaged parts BACK, if they aren't involved in a warranty repair. This helps assure that the center is at least being honest in what they did...and you can see for yourself the damage or perceived issue.
I remember a similar situation with a customer who called in to tell me a unit did not work. He said he had an electrician install the wiring for him in his house to code etc...It would not powerup at all. So, obviously from some of the details he gave, it was the power switch. Knowing that is not a frequent item of failure, I was trying to add things up. Then he told me that his electrician wanted to talk to me. As soon as he was on the phone the electrician started telling me that the unit was "underwired" for the amps it would draw and that he had rewired the unit correctly. I then asked him what gauge wire he had used, and it was well oversized for what was required, and likely would not easily fit into the powerswitch. I asked him if he was familiar with the NEC article 630. He had not ever heard of it, and said it didn't matter because he had done it for meeting code as the welder wire was undersized. I then explained to him the duty cycle derating etc by the NEC. He said he had never heard of such a thing...Anyway to make a long story short, the electrician had oversized the wire, and then over torqued the screws on the breaker switch on the rear of the unit, cracking the switch and breaking it. He could barely get the wires in to begin with... Once we got to the bottom of the story, the customer who was irate at us initially turned his anger toward his electrician in the end (who refused to even consider that he had made a mistake) after I explained it to customer himself and explained the issue over a series of calls. If memory serves correctly we sent him a new switch instead of sending it in after explaining that warranty repair doesn't usually cover this, but we'd be glad to send him the part at no charge if he wanted to fix it himself which he agreed to. IIRC, I think the electrician finally promised to install it himself and go back to using a smaller cord. Never heard from him again that I know of regarding the issue after we sent the switch.
Anyway, the thing to do, just like you'd do at a repair shop, always ask for the damaged parts BACK, if they aren't involved in a warranty repair. This helps assure that the center is at least being honest in what they did...and you can see for yourself the damage or perceived issue.
