Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
Welding a hook is dangerous as well, unless it is stamped weldable, or the manufacturer in someway designates it as weldable....otherwise you could end up with a brittle death trap.
Millermatic 140 for bucket hooks
- Thread starter Dano33
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steverino101
Member
he mentioned earlier that he bought the weldable type from the hook dealer. i'm thinking that would also mean that they aren't hardened or
i believe you would need some alloy rod to put them on.
i believe you would need some alloy rod to put them on.
Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
Good. I missed that. The porosity around the back of the hook is what I saw that made me think otherwise. But there's a bunch of other possible causes.
Thanks for the insight guys. The hooks are weldable hooks. As for the welds, I am certainly not an expert at welding and kind of wished I would have snapped some pics before the paint was applied. I used the recommended settings on the machine and was able to constantly "fry bacon" as the welds were being laid down, granted the 1/4 base plates were on the upper end of what the machine was designed for. I did get a little over zealous with the grinder once the job was complete so that is also why some of the welds looks a little odd. Either way, I will keep an eye on them to see if they shows signs of failure.
Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
Just be careful. A situation like this won't show "signs" of failure until it has failed.
Chilly807
Elite Member
I'll add my thoughts as well.. I used to own a Millermatic 135, the predecessor to the 140. Great little machine, nothing I welded with it has ever come apart, including lots of 1/4" and 5/16" plate. Probably some 3/8" in there as well, although it's been long enough that I can't remember now. I swapped it for a Millermatic 180 about 5 years ago, then added an old Sears AC/DC stick to the welding stable after that.
I'll agree that some of the welds do look a little "cold", although I think we're looking at the top layer of several passes. My experience, which is limited compared to some of you, has been that the initial passes are hot enough to get good fusion between the two actual workpieces, but the subsequent passes with a light machine just lay on top of the previous welds and don't do much other than add window dressing to the job. My gut instincts are that the 140 doesn't have the power to burn the top passes deeply into the base pass to get that concave profile that is the holy grail of welding. That doesn't mean the base pass wasn't good or strong enough to safely do the job.
So I think the real question we're asking is, are the initial passes hot enough and deep enough to hold the job together? Probably, it's hard to tell at this point after the grinding has been finished.
Having said all this, most of my farm welds now are done with the AC/DC stick machine. The reasons for that are varied, first being that I tend to get less spatter with a stick, and the stick machine is quicker and easier to set up and weld with than the MIG. Are the welds stronger? Maybe.. without the ability to do destructive testing in any meaningful way, we can't see the job in depth. The only way to truly test a job such as this is to measure how much force it typically takes to rip the hooks off the bucket lip. If that exceeds the safety margin we expect to see for the intended use of the hooks, then the job is successful in my opinion. Obviously it's not practical to do that to every job, otherwise we'd never get anything done.
Something else to keep in mind is how much weight can the loader lift? My Kubota is limited to about 1100-1200 lbs, or 600 lbs per hook, I'm thinking the 4310 JD is a bit more.
So, where are the pitfalls and holes in my line of thinking?
Sean
I'll agree that some of the welds do look a little "cold", although I think we're looking at the top layer of several passes. My experience, which is limited compared to some of you, has been that the initial passes are hot enough to get good fusion between the two actual workpieces, but the subsequent passes with a light machine just lay on top of the previous welds and don't do much other than add window dressing to the job. My gut instincts are that the 140 doesn't have the power to burn the top passes deeply into the base pass to get that concave profile that is the holy grail of welding. That doesn't mean the base pass wasn't good or strong enough to safely do the job.
So I think the real question we're asking is, are the initial passes hot enough and deep enough to hold the job together? Probably, it's hard to tell at this point after the grinding has been finished.
Having said all this, most of my farm welds now are done with the AC/DC stick machine. The reasons for that are varied, first being that I tend to get less spatter with a stick, and the stick machine is quicker and easier to set up and weld with than the MIG. Are the welds stronger? Maybe.. without the ability to do destructive testing in any meaningful way, we can't see the job in depth. The only way to truly test a job such as this is to measure how much force it typically takes to rip the hooks off the bucket lip. If that exceeds the safety margin we expect to see for the intended use of the hooks, then the job is successful in my opinion. Obviously it's not practical to do that to every job, otherwise we'd never get anything done.
Something else to keep in mind is how much weight can the loader lift? My Kubota is limited to about 1100-1200 lbs, or 600 lbs per hook, I'm thinking the 4310 JD is a bit more.
So, where are the pitfalls and holes in my line of thinking?
Sean
I know it's all painted and stuff, but just for peace of mind, try whacking it sideways with a decent sized hammer like a 3 pounder. Granted your machine will only lift five or six hundred pounds from that point, so it likely would never fail.
Thanks again for the additional insight. Chilly 807 pretty much describes the process I went though in that several passes were made, and I am pretty confident that the base passes were hot enough to get the job done. Before I lifted anything with my hooks, I conducted a "test" by placing my 650 pound land plane in one of my fields and hooked a chain to it. I put heavy blankets on the chains (similar to what is done for winch lines) and hooked them up to bucket hooks. Once everything was in place, I slowly dragged the implement around to see how the hooks would handle it. At one point the implement managed to really dig in which stopped the tractor dead in its tracks and caused the wheels to spin. The hooks never moved, so after that I tried picking up the implement and moving it around with no issues. Seeing that I doubt i will be lifting anything much heavier than this implement, I figure I should be ok. I know that this is not the most scientific testing, however its got to be better than nothing.
Dan-
Dan-
Shield Arc
Super Member
. Didn't like it, but sometimes it just can't be helped.
steverino101
Member
my concern is not with multiple passes. that isn't the problem. what is, is the nature of a mig weld. even under the best circumstances it
is hard to achieve the necessary penetration that an application like this requires when using a mig welder. i know i already said be careful,
and i would expect that you are careful around people and critters anyways, but what happens if that frame you are toting around suddenly
breaks loose at 10 mph? maybe some property damage and most certainly you will ruin a good pair of shorts.
for what it would take to cut the plates and hooks loose with a die grinder, my opinion is to redo this project with a dc arc welder because
it's just not worth the risks you will be taking with this setup.
is hard to achieve the necessary penetration that an application like this requires when using a mig welder. i know i already said be careful,
and i would expect that you are careful around people and critters anyways, but what happens if that frame you are toting around suddenly
breaks loose at 10 mph? maybe some property damage and most certainly you will ruin a good pair of shorts.
for what it would take to cut the plates and hooks loose with a die grinder, my opinion is to redo this project with a dc arc welder because
it's just not worth the risks you will be taking with this setup.
