Most cost effective way to divert water

[boostmg]

Hey everyone ... I have a property that has a field. The state has about 4 swales which diverts runoff onto my property. Last year i dug trenches with a shovel into the dirt to help contain and direct this water, this was a short term desperate fix.

The flow is relatively constant for most trenches. They range from 4-10" deep and about 5-10" wide. I have a treeline in the middle of the field, and that's naturally where all the water wants to flow, and that tree line ends up flowing into a creek which feeds into a reservoir.

The trenches I created act as "channels" to take this water from the states swales, to my treeline. I just roughly measure on google maps the distance of all my trenches and they are as follows:

trench 1 660 ft
trench 2 340 ft
trench 3 285 ft
trench 4 326 ft

So i'm wondering, what is the most cost effective way to properly build these waterways? I've seen things like french drains, dry creek beds etc but much of that seems mighty expensive. I really don't have too much of an issue just having trenches dug out from the dirt, but I believe that is not good for long term?

I'd love to know what others think about this as I have not much knowledge on landscaping or drainage.

 

[dodge man]

I have more questions than answers. When it rains a lot how much do they flow? Why is the state “diverting “ the water on your property is there a highway there? What is the natural drainage across your property?

 

[boostmg]

They flow very good when it rains, i'm not sure how i can best answer, but they fill up. They are diverting water because the road used to get so much water on it that it iced over really bad, and the state put pipes underneath the road, which then connect to swales which then dump onto our property. We learned this after we purchased the property and tried speaking with the state and lawyers and it seems like there wasn't much we could do.

The property does naturally drain into the creek i mentioned, except before my trenches, water would just disperse everywhere, the trenches were an attempt to concentrate the water into the trenches and get the water off the property quicker making it drain faster into the large creek.

 

[jaxs]

I would appeal to the state for assistance. It sound's like something a road grader/maintianer could easily handle by combining swales into one extending to creek.

 

[boostmg]

The state won’t help. And it’s not like they could connect them to run down the road, the road is probably as far as 75 ft from my property in some places.

so the problem i have is just like i stated, i have point A which is where the state swales meet my property, i have point B which is the mouth of a creek and i have my field in between both points.

i need to figure out the best water ways to create to get the water from point a to point b without spending a fortune.

the trenches i dug i am ok with but I’m not sure if they r the best idea or if they have negative longer term effects

 

[Sebculb]

Can you divert the water directly downslope to the creek via a rock lined (rip rap) out fall? Rock keeps the outfall from becoming a gorge and slows the water velocity down as it washes into the creek.

Do your current channels run cross slope? There is nothing wrong with having regular ditches permanently if the slope isn't too steep, except that they need maintenance periodically. Make them big and deep enough so they are part of the landform and let them grow vegetation in the bottom to keep them from getting carved out.

I'm a big fan of concrete half culverts to line permanent ditches with but that gets expensive. Then you need a rock outfall to slow the water down or its going to cause problems in whatever waterway or landform you direct it to.

There's people that paint geotextile with pure Portland cement paint, or dip it like paper maché to build stuff. Ditch liners are one of the most common uses for this material. Done well it's pretty strong but it requires practice.

 

[boostmg]

I am lucky that all the water naturally flows downhill, i just realized that my one largest and most flowing trench is overflowing because i have it hitting levelish ground, but i think i can divert into another trench that it can also naturally flow into, but would then flow behind the area it’s currently flooding.

my friend in landscaping told me about rip rap and it seems awesome, but it seems like i have so much area to cover that rock gets very expensive. (But i don’t know bc I’m inexperienced here)

put it this way, if i could just dig out trenches like i have now, no liners or anything and just have to maintain them filling in or unclogging them, id be ok with that. I just don’t know if there are longer term effects, i do believe i have water which sleeps through the walls of the trenches in spots because I’ll get random areas of wet ground which i believe is “under flow” for lack of a better term.

If i do need some kind of lining/pipe then i need to know the cheapest way out.

 

[airbiscuit]

The single bottom plow is a good idea. Making wide shallow channels that are seeded is also an option. Do you have a tractor or equipment?

 

[rademamj1]

It's not acceptable for the State DOT to simply divert water onto yours or anyone's property, and expect you to pay for water management. Do they have a water easement on your property. If not, then I would contact legal help to petition the State to assist you financially in this water management project. I am only thinking of the excessive and disproportionate cost to you. Because this could get very expensive, to manage water runoff in these high volumes and avoid serious surface erosion issues.

Perhaps diverting the runoff to a nearby surface tank/pond to hold and retain the water during summer months, while it recharges during late winter melt and spring rains. These ponds can often be built with a bulldozer in a week long effort, and hold 300,000 gals or more. You will need to get a reasonable estimate of runoff in gallons, if you decide to go the pond option, because that will control the size of your retention pond. Such a pond can be lined with impermeable clay for year long retention, or permeable compacted sand for allowing ground water recharging.

Honestly, any flow channels you build should be lined with concrete to limit surface erosion and insure long term operations. And that's where the costs go up significantly.

 

[airbiscuit]

Pics would help. If it's intermittent and not a lot of water, vegetation lined channels would do the trick. If it is a significant amount of water, you might have a nice source of water for a retention pond. We're all pretty much flying blind here guessing about what you have.

 

[Diggin It]

Last year i dug trenches with a shovel into the dirt ...

They range from 4-10" deep and about 5-10" wide.

I just roughly measure on google maps the distance of all my trenches and they are as follows:

trench 1 660 ft
trench 2 340 ft
trench 3 285 ft
trench 4 326 ft

You dug 1600 feet of trench by hand?

 

[LD1]

Definitely need some pics of the area.

When the state is probably not "diverting" water....rather the pipes under the road bed simply allow the water to pass under the road instead of over it. When they build up a road.....the road bed becomes a dam. The culverts simply allow water to flow as if the road wasnt there. Because as you said.....water runs down hill. And if the road wasnt there, you would have the same issue.

The first thing that comes to mind is what we here in ohio call sodways. They are gentle sloping swales about 30' wide and follow the low lying areas that water likes to flow. Then seeded with grass to prevent erosion.

Along with sodways is field-tile. Tile pulls as much water as they can underground and minimizes surface water/erosion. Sodways usually have larger main tiles with lots of smaller laterals tied in to dry up farm land.

These fields you mentioned.....are they farmed? What part of the state are you in?

At the very least I'd try to establish some sodways. A tractor and angle blade can do this. Angle the blade and start windrowing dirt away from the low areas the water runs. I do a bit of ag drainage and field tile here in the central part of the state.....just curious how far away you might be?

 

[boostmg]

It's not acceptable for the State DOT to simply divert water onto yours or anyone's property, and expect you to pay for water management. Do they have a water easement on your property. If not, then I would contact legal help to petition the State to assist you financially in this water management project. I am only thinking of the excessive and disproportionate cost to you. Because this could get very expensive, to manage water runoff in these high volumes and avoid serious surface erosion issues.

Perhaps diverting the runoff to a nearby surface tank/pond to hold and retain the water during summer months, while it recharges during late winter melt and spring rains. These ponds can often be built with a bulldozer in a week long effort, and hold 300,000 gals or more. You will need to get a reasonable estimate of runoff in gallons, if you decide to go the pond option, because that will control the size of your retention pond. Such a pond can be lined with impermeable clay for year long retention, or permeable compacted sand for allowing ground water recharging.

Honestly, any flow channels you build should be lined with concrete to limit surface erosion and insure long term operations. And that's where the costs go up significantly.

I completely agree with you the issue is we’ve contacted the state they said they could basically do whatever they want, and any lawyer we talked to didn’t have much of a solution.

the closest solution we got from a lawyer was that his argument would be to have the state compensate us per acre for the land effected by this, but then we were running the risk of the land being classified as wetlands, which it’s not and which we wouldn’t want either.

 

[boostmg]

You dug 1600 feet of trench by hand?

i did. That’s how determined i was to fix this issue. And i had to do multiple passes.

my plan was to Do it by hand first (bc we were worried about a machine getting stuck) then hopefully w the trenches made it would dry up enough to get a machine out there like a TLB and do a better job. That’s where I’m currently at.

Im going to take pictures to get them all to you

 

[dodge man]

I suspect LD1 has it correct, the water would probably flow that way if the road wasn’t there. I’d would just build better ditches.

 

[boostmg]

Definitely need some pics of the area.

When the state is probably not "diverting" water....rather the pipes under the road bed simply allow the water to pass under the road instead of over it. When they build up a road.....the road bed becomes a dam. The culverts simply allow water to flow as if the road wasnt there. Because as you said.....water runs down hill. And if the road wasnt there, you would have the same issue.

The first thing that comes to mind is what we here in ohio call sodways. They are gentle sloping swales about 30' wide and follow the low lying areas that water likes to flow. Then seeded with grass to prevent erosion.

Along with sodways is field-tile. Tile pulls as much water as they can underground and minimizes surface water/erosion. Sodways usually have larger main tiles with lots of smaller laterals tied in to dry up farm land.

These fields you mentioned.....are they farmed? What part of the state are you in?

At the very least I'd try to establish some sodways. A tractor and angle blade can do this. Angle the blade and start windrowing dirt away from the low areas the water runs. I do a bit of ag drainage and field tile here in the central part of the state.....just curious how far away you might be?

I see what your saying ... i'm going to draw up some diagrams and show you guys some pictures.

What you're saying about the water flowing that way is probably correct in a way, however accross the road is another farmers field ... and he has swales going directly to the road, which then run along the road, so he basically channeled the water to the road.

We live on a deadend, kind of in the middle of it, the houses before us all have drainage ditches that run along the road, but then it stops at our property and we are the ones who receive all that run off.

I don't believe any field tile, or anything like that exists in these swales the state created.

Is a sodway like a swale? I looked it up but couldn't find any pics.

 

[Wakey]

I have a similar issue. At the street I have water coming from both directions that pushes into my pasture. It does pool after a heavy rain event. The previous owner hand dug a meandering ditch of sorts sending the runoff towards my neighbors pond.

I likely could touch up the drainage flow but I’m leaving it until I get the county to come look.

Here is the problem and it might be an issue for you as well.

All it takes is a job site upstream from me with a poor silt fence. All of that would end up in my pasture and that would be a huge mess.

 

[airbiscuit]

 

[deezler]

First of all your local county and road commission have the full right to send drainage water basically wherever they please. For the vast majority of roads and areas, this is just a certain amount of control over the natural drainage patterns that already existed beforehand. They cant make water go uphill, obviously. And unless they just recently made major changes to this that affected you, I can't see a shred of legal standing that you would have to compel them to change things.

My property is also the low spot that receives all the ditch water from my northern neighbors. I'm not thrilled about their garbage water and run-off coming into my forest, but what can you do. There is also a culvert under the road at the same spot that sends the run off from the ditches across the street! They just replaced the culvert with a nice new 2-footer, and left the shiny galvanized end sticking 4 feet out of the dirt bank. It shoots water like a cannon when we get a monster rainstorm.... not real awesome.

If you dug trenches by hand that were able to re-direct the water effectively, then you are in good shape. There's no long term detrimental effects of ditches to channel water, IMO. Unless they are eroding badly, just let 'em do their thing. Or for a less intrusive and more aesthetically pleasing solution, use a tractor to carve swales in the same spots. Just like the video posted above. Done.

 

[boostmg]

First of all your local county and road commission have the full right to send drainage water basically wherever they please. For the vast majority of roads and areas, this is just a certain amount of control over the natural drainage patterns that already existed beforehand. They cant make water go uphill, obviously. And unless they just recently made major changes to this that affected you, I can't see a shred of legal standing that you would have to compel them to change things.

My property is also the low spot that receives all the ditch water from my northern neighbors. I'm not thrilled about their garbage water and run-off coming into my forest, but what can you do. There is also a culvert under the road at the same spot that sends the run off from the ditches across the street! They just replaced the culvert with a nice new 2-footer, and left the shiny galvanized end sticking 4 feet out of the dirt bank. It shoots water like a cannon when we get a monster rainstorm.... not real awesome.

If you dug trenches by hand that were able to re-direct the water effectively, then you are in good shape. There's no long term detrimental effects of ditches to channel water, IMO. Unless they are eroding badly, just let 'em do their thing. Or for a less intrusive and more aesthetically pleasing solution, use a tractor to carve swales in the same spots. Just like the video posted above. Done.

If there’s no long term effects then I’m totally cool with what I’m doing now. I haven’t seen much erosion and it’s been like 2-3 years