Move barn or tear it down?

[Lomillialor]

I'm wanting to buy this property with a pole barn on it.

Problem is it was built too close to the property line and violates county setbacks. It's about 6 feet from the line and should be 25 ft.

Barn is 24x36 and pretty high with two horse stalls (each with exit outside), and two car like openings (no doors)

It has a dirt floor and the poles are set in concrete I am told.

Wood sidings.

Steel skeleton.

Probably a steel roof, sorry can't recall at moment.

Is it possible to move something like this about 20 feet?

I'm worried that once I buy the property, the appraiser or someone will come out and want us to abide by county setback rules. So I'd have to tear it down or move it.

It's a nice barn, just a few years old. Would hate to tear it down.

How much should I reduce purchase offer by so I can, A) tear it down and rebuilt a cheaper building big enough for my mower and class-D RV van, or B) move it, or C) have someone disassemble it and rebuilt it?

If I buy the property, I won't actually do anything to the barn unless the county ordered me to. But I'd need the purchase offer discount to pay for that project in case I am forced to.

help!!! thanks

The property and house are beautiful and the asking price already great, so I doubt they'd come down enough to pay for a demolition and then complete reconstruction of a really, really, really nice barn replacement. So I need realistic and moderate price reduction figures as well as the right course of action to take.

 

[MikeD74T]

Before I did anything else I'd find out whether it needs to be moved at all. 25' behind a building isn't much more useful than 6'. If the building's already being taxed the county probably knows where it is. My barn is 10' from the property line( I got a variance from the 25' requirement) and the only time I see that land is to mow the grass. MikeD74T

 

[zzvyb6]

The building is probably already grandfathered in. And, if its a 'farm' and zoned as such, there's even less chance 'they' can do anything about it.

However, you might be able to sell it, piece by piece or as a package deal.

 

[2manyrocks]

Seems like someone posted about moving a post barn in the projects section a year or two ago.

I don't know how you'd estimate the cost except to call a house mover, but the problem is the poles are sunk in the ground. So they'd have to figure out how to deal with that if it can be dealt with. It's not like it's a framed structure that you can set on a trailer and move without tieing it together.

My question is if anybody is seeking to enforce the setback requirement and whether the barn was built before or after the requirement came into effect. Sometimes, there's no opposition until there's a new owner and then the new guy gets all the flack.

 

[Piston]

Be sure it isn't grandfathered in already, it would be a shame to tear it down or spend a bunch of money moving it if you didn't need to. If so, I would, I would make my offer on the house contingent upon the seller taking care of the problem before you closed on it, unless they offered a substantial price reduction.

 

[2458n]

Is there a lawyer involved? Check into the possibility of obtaining a variance if one does not currently exist. With the current cost of materials the building maybe hard to replace at a future date. If the building is in good shape I would do whatever you had to do to keep it.

 

[Army grunt]

As stated above Its grandfathered in. If its been taxed they know where it is.Even if you had to move it it would be no big deal.a house mover would do it easy with a few long "I" beams an cut the pols off at ground level an dig new holes an pour concrete an use a fixture to hold the pole on top of the new concrete .
Its always easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask alot of questions an stir the s---Just my thoughts.
Army Grunt

 

[KTurner]

It's a nice barn, just a few years old. Would hate to tear it down.

Here's what would concern me - if it's just a few years old, and it doesn't follow setback rules, then they most likely did not go through the proper channels when building it (permits, inspections, code). When I went to build a small shed a few years ago, I was told by my local govt that anything above 100 sqft required a permit. So, I'd be wondering...

is the barn factored into the tax assessment now, and, if not, how much will your property tax increase when the local govt increases the assessment to include the barn?

Was this the only thing, or did they have a habit of doing things around the house without getting building permits/inspections?

In addition to the question about teardown/move due to setback, will the local govt require you to teardown/rebuild because there was no building permit or inspections?

Does it meet code, if not will you be required to make it so?

We had a home in Nags head where we converted a small ground level area into a small bedroom. It was originally a large utility closet and we put flooring in, wall covering in and added a door to connect it to an existing ground level floor. When we went to sell it, the real estate agent absolutely would not allow us to say it was a 3 bedroom. We could not include this new room in advertising and had to say it was a 2 bedroom, as that was what was on the tax assessment.

Keith

 

[Lomillialor]

thanks all

keith raised some issues on my mind as well that I failed to mention earlier

I am 100% sure the building is not permitted or taxed. The county property records do not show the barn, though similar properties do show their accessory structures on their county property records.

I have no idea if it is "code".

I think the remainder of the property is fine so not worried there.

I am having a demolition guy coming out to estimate tearing it down and hauling away debris. So that figure will give me a base figure for reducing purchase offer by some minimum amount.

But two other questions are how much more in taxes do I pay if the barn gets a variance and how much to bring it to code.

Also, is it even possible to hire someone to dissassemble and rebuild in a new location? Reusing the same materials, which to me seem very good materials. Could they cut the poles and use new poles to rebuild? How much would all that cost minimum, just to dissassemble and rebuild? Or maybe I can have them dissassemble the barn and sell the materials as someone here suggested, though I doubt I'd get much (perhaps enough for a downpayment towards a cheap steel storage shed). I think they said there's $10000-12000 in materials in the barn as is.

 

[oldnslo]

Not sure where the OP lives but in Illinois if the property is zoned Ag and the building is for AG use the set backs are different that for houses etc. May want to quietly do some research. Typically one the building is complete and has been there for a year or two they can not force you to move it. You may or may not be able to add on to or make any modifications to it though if the rules have changed since it was built.

Go to your local zoning office and ask them nicely was the set backs are etc for Ag buildings.

Roy

 

[MikeD74T]

...I am having a demolition guy coming out to estimate tearing it down and hauling away debris. So that figure will give me a base figure for reducing purchase offer by some minimum amount..... quote]

I'm not in a position to do so but if you made me that offer I'd show you back to the road back to where you came from. If it was a dangerous or junk building I'd clean it up before offering for sale but I'd not tear something down at my own expense for a buyer.
You might be able to get insurance, like title insurance, that would pay if there are code issues found post sale. MikeD74T

 

[Western]

If the seller is motivated, they likely will have to deal with either a reduction in price, removal themselves or show documents that for some reason it is allowed.

They will have to deal with this with any savvy purchaser.

I had a similar problem several years ago prior to buying our place. We looked at a property that had a shop built 6" over the property line. Both the seller and the "other" property owner where willing to sign whatever they had to, to allow the sell. Naturally it was documented in the survey and was immediately struck down by the mortgage company, so we walked.

I would let the seller deal with it, solve the problem or I'd move on.

 

[rgood]

Is a survey being done?

Why not just put it in the sellers hands and have him negotiate with the neighbor to move the property line? I realize depending on what the neighbor has that may not be possible. But that's a cheaper way out.

 

[dmccarty]

Is this for sale by owner? In NC if the real estate agent/broker knows there is a problem with the property they have to tell the buyer. Ask the agent/broker about the barn and set back.

As others have said, is the barn grandfathered in or considered an Ag building? Tis possible that if the barn is Ag or grandfathered it might not show up at the county.

I would be surprised in this day and age for the county to miss an opportunity to tax something. My county looks at aerial photos AND visits. We have been visited. But we did not have anything taxable that they did not know about. :thumbsup:

Is the setback a county rule? Is an HOA involved? If not check the home owners paperwork as well.

The barn could be moved and setup on piers.

Later,
Dan

 

[rjkobbeman]

Here is what I would do:

1. Go talk to the county and find out FOR SURE if they know about the building and if/how they are taxing it.

2. If the county DOES know about the building, find out if there is a variance for the setback. If there is not one, ask how to get one and if it would be a problem due to the building already there.

3. If the county DOES know about the building, find out HOW the current owner is being taxed. The current owner's tax status (Ag?) may be A LOT different than your tax status. Meaning, merely seeing what the current owner is paying in taxes may be a lot less than what you will pay in taxes. An extra building can add lot to the tax bill.

4. If the county DOES NOT know about the building, explain your situation and find out the best course of action for you.

My guess is you can get a variance on the setback if one does not already exist.

I got a setback variance for an outbuilding that I plan to build. Had to have a public hearing on my street. On the phone, the county basically told me that unless there was something that the country found as an issue the setback would be approved... whether there were objections to it or not. Neighbors' objections have to be valid, not just "I don't like it".

Either way, you will want to invovle the county before you buy. This probably is not as big of a deal as you think.

Also, if I am the current owner, I am not going to entertain any idea about deducting the cost of the barn. That should be a selling positive, not a negative.

 

[EddieWalker]

Most barns and sheds don't have any value to the sale of a property. I would be very suprirsed if it was factored into the asking price for the land. Having said that, if the seller is hurting and wants to sell the place, it's as good an excuse as any to offer a lower price. As a buyer, everything is fair in trying to get the best price possible. Of course, you don't need an excuse or reason to offer less. Just toss out a low ball offer and see what the response is. You can always go up, but if he jumps at your first offer, you probably offered more then he was willing to go down to.

Not knowing where you are, or what the laws are in your area, it might be that the building has no tax value. It also might not need a permit to have been built. This is all local, and there are plenty of places in the country where you can build without permits or be taxed on ag buildings.

I wouldn't worry about it until I was told to. Even then, I would only worry about it if they had some sort of enforcement to do something about it. Again, it depends on where you are and what recourses they have. Some places will tell you what to do, but can't enforce anything or even level a fine against you.

If it comes to having to move it, you can still apply for a varience. This is where you go through the process of having the building exempted from the law for whatever reason. Most obvious reason would be that it was already there and its not causing any problems. In my experience, you have to get a petition of all your neighbors to sign a document saying they don't care that the building is there. Then you have to go in front of the council or board or whoever in the county is in charge of these things and present your case. After all that, then you will know if you need to do anything.

Good luck and welcome to TBN,
Eddie

 

[Lomillialor]

The property is residential estate. Not ag. No commerical crops or animals allowed, though you can keep horses.

The owner is also an agent with the broker who is selling the property.

I myself informed the owner of the problem after I realized it was a problem. They may have known, but didn't let on they did.

The barn violates county setbacks. No doubt.

I will see a lawyer and title agent on Monday to discuss this.

Because of the unknown tax implications, I may have to walk away simply for that reason I guess. Not sure how to know in advance how much tax I MIGHT have to pay in addition to what's currently being paid. Maybe the lawyer and title agent can inform on this.

Besides the tax risk, there is the code risk (is it safe, or will it blow apart in the next hurricane here in FL and destroy the nearby house?), and of course the cost risk in demolition and/or rebuild.

I do plan on doing a survey.

Lots to figure out. Thanks for the great tips. Keep them coming please.

 

[EddieWalker]

Do you have an agent to represent you? It is highly illegal for a known issue with a property to not be disclosed. If the owner/agent didn't disclose the illegal building as such, then he/she is breaking the law and probably hiding other issues as well. An agressive agent can and will use this to get a better price for you and make everything legal.

Good luck
Eddie

 

[roamerr]

I helped Jack up a 24 x24 barn that is 28' tall so we could put a new foundation under it. Stayed in the air for several weeks since we could only work on weekends. I would say a 24x 36 could be moved. It would be a matter of finding timbers long enough to support it and then slowly moving it. Not an easy task but is do-able. A zoning variance would be preferred so you can leave it where it is....

 

[NorTracNY]

I would do what rjkobbeman suggested. You (saddly enough) need to have an attorney in this case. If the town says there is any problem, you need to put into the purchase offer that the current owner must take care of the situation with the town. Let them get the varience, buy more property, or move the barn. If you're in a hurry to buy, find another place.
You very easily could be fined by the town if you buy the place without the problem solved. I know someone that bought a house and had problems with the town. The previous owners had started to finish the basement without a permit. The town saw this after my friend had bought the place and were going to fine them.