Mower deck wash ?

[eddieirvine]

And you believe a video where the guy drills a hole in the spindle housing for a weep hole that can allow water and other contamination inside the housing. Drives the shaft out with a hammer, and I know for a fact with that spindle the shaft is now bent. And then plies the seal out that easily and you think that grease can't get past it. And then says the overfilling will press the bearing out. maybe if he hadn't removed the inner seals, but in this case it now pops the outer seal out and create more issues than he fixed. And the housing doesn't have to be full of grease to do it. Just the resulting air pressure increase will pop out the seals. And then proceeds to tap the bearing back in with hammer where any body that sells bearings will tell you is a no-no because it can cause flat spots on the balls.

Murray conducted testing years ago where they put one color grease in the housing and another in the bearings, and then ran them for several hours and then removed the bearings from the housing and disassembled the bearings and determined that the two greases had mixed because the grease inside the bearing was a corresponding color of the two mixed greases.

You sir have no idea what you are talking about when you quote, bending the shaft with a rubber hammer ! This guy took the time to do this the correct way to remove and replace the bearings on this spindle, Could have been pressed out with an arbor press but for the small sized of spindle he had it is not worth the time. And i love your flat spots on the balls of the bearing, you could not put a flat spot on the ball of a bearing even if you had a single ball and hit it with a sledge hammer!! not possible. And for the relief hole, that is a good idea so if pressure does build up it has a place to go. I was machinist for 40 yrs and depending on the situation that occurs, there are times you have to do what it takes to remove and replace bearings of all sizes. You sir have never taken apart a spindle or anything related to one to remove bearings, your opinion is best kept to yourself !! Also you say dirt can get in, it will not the grease that is there will keep it out !!!

 

[arto98607]

That ought to do it!

 

[Richard001]

You sir have no idea what you are talking about when you quote, bending the shaft with a rubber hammer ! This guy took the time to do this the correct way to remove and replace the bearings on this spindle, Could have been pressed out with an arbor press but for the small sized of spindle he had it is not worth the time. And i love your flat spots on the balls of the bearing, you could not put a flat spot on the ball of a bearing even if you had a single ball and hit it with a sledge hammer!! not possible. And for the relief hole, that is a good idea so if pressure does build up it has a place to go. I was machinist for 40 yrs and depending on the situation that occurs, there are times you have to do what it takes to remove and replace bearings of all sizes. You sir have never taken apart a spindle or anything related to one to remove bearings, your opinion is best kept to yourself !! Also you say dirt can get in, it will not the grease that is there will keep it out !!!

WOW attacking a fellow forum member without even knowing anything about him.

 

[tomplum]

Watched the controversial video. Seems like a nice person, not really the person who knows his way around OPE spindles though. If he were to have purchased the OEM HOP spindle, the lower bearing would not have had the seal. Traditionally the inconsistent load on the spindle is at the lower end, thus the larger bearing in this case. Fun fact: Even non lubeable HOP spindles have fewer bearing failures than many. There is absolutely no reason to pack a blade spindle solid with grease. If you want to feel good about hitting them with 10 shots of grease every now and then, you've more than done your part. These things are not supporting a ton of weight nor deal with a ton of force.
Another bit of useful info. Light duty Deere bearings on the entry level models and even light X Series decks are both too small. They are similar in size to the upper of the HOP spindle. Deere will use a different bearing seal in the lowers. Strangely, more Deere upper bearings fail than uppers in anything else I work on. Do I think for a minute that if I displaced every last bit of air in the spindle housing jammed with grease that it would extend upper bearing life or blowout the bearings? Both are equally as laughable.

 

[RandyT]

You sir have no idea what you are talking about when you quote, bending the shaft with a rubber hammer ! This guy took the time to do this the correct way to remove and replace the bearings on this spindle, Could have been pressed out with an arbor press but for the small sized of spindle he had it is not worth the time. And i love your flat spots on the balls of the bearing, you could not put a flat spot on the ball of a bearing even if you had a single ball and hit it with a sledge hammer!! not possible. And for the relief hole, that is a good idea so if pressure does build up it has a place to go. I was machinist for 40 yrs and depending on the situation that occurs, there are times you have to do what it takes to remove and replace bearings of all sizes. You sir have never taken apart a spindle or anything related to one to remove bearings, your opinion is best kept to yourself !! Also you say dirt can get in, it will not the grease that is there will keep it out !!!

Been a mower technician for the past 23 years so I have taken apart hundreds of spindles and replaced even more bearings, So your machinist experience is worthless. So keep your incorrect opinions to yourself.

 

[RjCorazza]

I occasionally pressure wash the underside of my decks with a 4 nozzle wheeled wand - usually when I can't avoid cutting wet grass, or in the fall before packing the mowers up. I have over 4000 hours across 3 machines with no spindle failures.
My personal opinion (not based upon facts) is that most spindle failures occur due to poor blade maintenance, balance issues, or inadequate greasing.

 

[BravoXray]

Interesting thread....
In the 27 years I have owned my JD430 with the 60" deck, in about 1000 hours of use I had one spindle bearing fail, around 900 hours, even though I greased them regularly. I rebuilt all three spindles and idler pulley as a preventative measure and they have been good since.
As for cleaning the underside of the deck, I only cleaned it once a year when I took the deck off the sharpen the blades and put the snow blower on the tractor. I do blow the tractor and the top of the deck off with compressed air after ever mowing session. There was rarely more than a small amount of grass stuck to the underside. I don't mow wet grass, I have removed the discharge chute, and the tractor is stored inside, so it has virtually no rust on it, even on the underside. I have been thinking about disassembling it and having it powder coated like the snow blower and metal tractor parts, strictly for appearance sake.

 

[panamaguy]

WOW attacking a fellow forum member without even knowing anything about him.

No not attack but call BS when we see it. I also know you are not going to bent a shaft hitting it with a rubber hammer. That is pure BS. Being in the metal trade from the time I was 18 until I retired at age 53 and moved to the Caribbean and still doing some specialty welding and small machining I call BS.. We should not be expected to pat everyone on the back and except everything someone posts. We all have been wrong about things in life and we learn by being corrected by someone who knows. This gentleman needs to be corrected

 

[kpsp50]

I use red tacky grease I find that works best for me on most everything for the last several years and water doesn't seem to effect it good luck

 

[Grumpycat]

Referred to as sealed bearings, but not exactly sealed. More like dust covers to keep most of the junk out. And studies were conducted years ago, that when they used one color grease inside the bearing and another color grease in the grease zerk, they found that there was some mixing of the two inside the bearing.

Something people don't realize also this same concept applies to ATV and UTV bearings on axles and differentials. The seals are designed to keep the oil in, but when dunked in cold water will cause water and other debris to be sucked past the seal, quickly leading to bearing failures.

Sealed bearings (as shown) really are sealed. Shielded bearings are not.

The seal of a sealed bearing as shown in the spindle bearing video keeps grease in the bearing which would be thrown out in normal use. It is not a robust seal to protect against the elements. Disappointing that mower spindles do not have an external 2nd seal the way motorcycles and ATVs have. Even street motorcycles.

I have seen a few Country Clipper spindles. Sealed bearings. No zerk fittings. The zerk fittings in the video are useless but for “feel good” factor. Make someone feel good about doing the right thing servicing their machine without actually doing anything useful. Just like ethanol in gasoline makes people believe they are saving the environment or something.

The external seal on motorcycle and ATV wears and quits sealling. Otherwise it does a good job protecting against “cold water”. Even worn it provides a shield lessening the amount of crud reaching the bearing seal. The right thing to do installing new or prepping a new motorcycle is to pack the space between sealed bearing and external seal with waterproof/marine grease. This lubricates the seal and provides yet another barrier before crud can reach the bearing.

The wrong headed person in the video did not bend the spindle tapping on it with a soft hammer. Is not the preferable means to extract a bearing one wishes to reuse, a purist would use a press. The issue is hitting the inner race of bearing to extract the outer race. Ball bearings are held to millionths of an inch, little things matter. But I am far from convinced his hammer abused the bearing anywhere near what the bearing gets holding a blade hitting things we all hit with mowers no matter how much care. Motorcycle wheel bearings are usually much tighter in the hub and very likely to be destroyed using a drift to drive out from the inner race. If I remove, I replace with new. I can pull the outer seal to inspect, clean, and/or add grease without removing the bearing.

The primary reason to add grease to bearings is to push crud out of the bearing. No way is the pressure of grease going to push his bearings out when clamped on both ends by the spindle. Seals without supplementary retainers will come out, which is bad. Is desirable to push old grease out the seal. His stupid weep hole is exactly the thing which will vent pressure preventing new grease from reaching his bearings.

Many motorcyclists rant about how little grease they find in “cheap” sealed wheel bearings, even in premium brand new motorcycles and OE replacement bearings. It doesn’t take much grease to do the job and too much grease in a high speed bearing only pops the seals out. “Too much” is ok in a low speed bearing.

 

[RandyT]

Sealed bearings (as shown) really are sealed. Shielded bearings are not.

The seal of a sealed bearing as shown in the spindle bearing video keeps grease in the bearing which would be thrown out in normal use. It is not a robust seal to protect against the elements. Disappointing that mower spindles do not have an external 2nd seal the way motorcycles and ATVs have. Even street motorcycles.

I have seen a few Country Clipper spindles. Sealed bearings. No zerk fittings. The zerk fittings in the video are useless but for “feel good” factor. Make someone feel good about doing the right thing servicing their machine without actually doing anything useful. Just like ethanol in gasoline makes people believe they are saving the environment or something.

The external seal on motorcycle and ATV wears and quits sealling. Otherwise it does a good job protecting against “cold water”. Even worn it provides a shield lessening the amount of crud reaching the bearing seal. The right thing to do installing new or prepping a new motorcycle is to pack the space between sealed bearing and external seal with waterproof/marine grease. This lubricates the seal and provides yet another barrier before crud can reach the bearing.

The wrong headed person in the video did not bend the spindle tapping on it with a soft hammer. Is not the preferable means to extract a bearing one wishes to reuse, a purist would use a press. The issue is hitting the inner race of bearing to extract the outer race. Ball bearings are held to millionths of an inch, little things matter. But I am far from convinced his hammer abused the bearing anywhere near what the bearing gets holding a blade hitting things we all hit with mowers no matter how much care. Motorcycle wheel bearings are usually much tighter in the hub and very likely to be destroyed using a drift to drive out from the inner race. If I remove, I replace with new. I can pull the outer seal to inspect, clean, and/or add grease without removing the bearing.

The primary reason to add grease to bearings is to push crud out of the bearing. No way is the pressure of grease going to push his bearings out when clamped on both ends by the spindle. Seals without supplementary retainers will come out, which is bad. Is desirable to push old grease out the seal. His stupid weep hole is exactly the thing which will vent pressure preventing new grease from reaching his bearings.

Many motorcyclists rant about how little grease they find in “cheap” sealed wheel bearings, even in premium brand new motorcycles and OE replacement bearings. It doesn’t take much grease to do the job and too much grease in a high speed bearing only pops the seals out. “Too much” is ok in a low speed bearing.

The guy in the video would of been better off just removing the seal in the bottom bearing and left the top bearing alone. With his weep hole or even without unless the cavity is filled the top bearing will never get lubed. And contrary to our resident machinist I have bent more then one shaft trying to remove it from those style AYP spindles with a rubber mallet. Have had to start using a wooden block to remove and reinstall them if I plan on keep the shaft. Just too many cases of just need bearings and the shaft appears straight evident by no wobble in the blade. and tapping the shaft out with a black rubber mallet, and installing new bearings and tapping the shaft back in with a rubber mallet and now the blade wobbles. Some of the JD spindles I have to press them apart and press them back together and even then that sometimes bends the shaft. MTD/ Cub Cadet shafts seems to take a little more abuse.

 

[4570Man]

If you bend a shaft taking it apart with a hammer it was junk to start with. What happens to it when the blade is spinning and hitting stuff beside grass. I’ve been fairly hard on my mower and I’ve never bent a shaft.

 

[ning]

for all the people saying your spindles will be destroyed.. my mower is from 2000, has 600 hours on it, and the spindles are original. i have been washing the deck for 10 years. if i had to buy new spindles every 10 years i would do it, just in the convivence alone. my spindles are fine.

i also have it added to 3 push mowers, and my mothers mower, for the last 5 years. still original.

I don't even understand why people think it will cause a failure, they are sealed bearings, not in the spray path, yes they get wet, but its not like they are pressure washer directed angles.

The first spindles on my mower lasted 13 years and idk how many hundreds of hours and it wasn't until they were wobbling and the blades hitting each other that I replaced them and belatedly learned about grease zerks, but anecdotally I wouldn't suggest people not grease their spindles

My spindles - original and replacements - absolutely did not have "sealed bearings".

 

[bmg88201]

I really confused. Don’t wash the deck, okay to wash the deck, remove inner bearing seals, don’t remove seals, grease the spindles, greasing spindles does nothing, put a weep hole in the spindle, don’t put a weep hole in it.

All I know is I get about 300 hours on my spindles and have to replace them. Just put in the second set of spindles at 610 hours ( JD spindles ). I keep my blades balanced and sharp, I put 2 or 3 shots of grease in the spindles a couple of times in the mowing season. What the heck ? Too little grease, too much grease, no grease, UGH !!!!!

 

[stuckmotor]

BMG88201,
We're both confused. I've had my Snapper Rear Engine Rider for over 16 years and have never replaced the spindle. For the first 15 of those years, I gave the spindle 10 pumps every so often with grease gun. A year or so back I began seeing Youtube presentations about sealed bearings and pumping in grease being a waste of grease. I might have greased it once since. Did I waste grease for 15 years? Well, when I removed the belt cover, there was a good bit of grease under the pulley but I don't think it was fifteen years worth. Yep, I'm confused too.

 

[Richard001]

I really confused. Don’t wash the deck, okay to wash the deck, remove inner bearing seals, don’t remove seals, grease the spindles, greasing spindles does nothing, put a weep hole in the spindle, don’t put a weep hole in it.

All I know is I get about 300 hours on my spindles and have to replace them. Just put in the second set of spindles at 610 hours ( JD spindles ). I keep my blades balanced and sharp, I put 2 or 3 shots of grease in the spindles a couple of times in the mowing season. What the heck ? Too little grease, too much grease, no grease, UGH !!!!!

It would be interesting to know what your found to be the problem with your spindles that you had to replace. Did you do an analysis on them ?

 

[bmg88201]

I would like to know also. The grease zert is on the top of the shaft and is pressed in, not threaded in. I can’t tap the shaft out without crushing the zert even with a nut threaded on the shaft to protect the threads. I could get it done with a press, but I don’t have a press. I think JD did that on purpose to make it difficult to rebuild the spindle. The option would be to drill and tap a hole in the side for a new zert, that way I could knock the shaft out regardless of ruining the zert in the top of the shaft. Oh well, I guess I’ll get new spindles after the next 300 hours.

 

[Grumpycat]

I find it hard to believe there is steel soft enough one can bend a 5/8” diameter shaft with a rubber or plastic mallet. Yet strong enough to withstand impacts a spinning mower blade encounters.

I think the shaft was bent before the mallet appeared.

IIRC the cheap Country Clipper spindle shafts are 7/8”. The more expensive models are 1” or even 1-1/8”. Then reduced at end to fit blade.

 

[tomplum]

Top zerk spindles, the shafts can be driven out w/ a deep well socket with the nut threaded on the shaft. The issue w/ X series is that some have kind of a bell shaped spacer which makes it difficult to drive the old bearing out. It can be done though. I have an oval bearing driver that I use.

 

[RandyT]

I find it hard to believe there is steel soft enough one can bend a 5/8” diameter shaft with a rubber or plastic mallet. Yet strong enough to withstand impacts a spinning mower blade encounters.

I think the shaft was bent before the mallet appeared.

IIRC the cheap Country Clipper spindle shafts are 7/8”. The more expensive models are 1” or even 1-1/8”. Then reduced at end to fit blade.

This spindle shaft has a 5 point star for the blade adapter. Missing that adapter when installing the blade even with a ratchet will mushroom the star were the blade will not fit the adapter. Do it with an impact wrench and you are replacing the shaft. And that should be a hardened part of the shaft.

Taking apart a new spindle may not be bad. Doing the same to a several year old spindle where water has gotten into the bearing cavity, and you will be lucky to salvage the housing. And trying to remove the housing from the deck is guaranteed to have the bolts break off. What is even better is breaking off a new self tapping mounting bolt in a new spindle before it even completely tightens down.