Mowing Mowing on slopes

[MossRoad]

Yes. The mower floats. This is how it works...

The lift arms work exactly like the lift arms on a front end loader. They are permanently attached to the tractor. If you move the joystick forward and backward, the lift arms go up and down. On the end of the lift arms is a male quick attach plate. If you move the joystick left and right, the quick attach plate tips forward and backward, like the dump motion on a loader. ALL attachments have a female quick attach receiver. You drive up to the attachment, use the joystick to slip the male plate into the female receiver, operate a lever under the dashboard to hydraulically close the quick connect lock, pick up the attachment and drive away. The whole process takes about 5 seconds once you get use to it. Just like a front end loader, if you push the joystick past the detent, it goes into float. So a mower will float up and down out in front of the tractor, independent of the tractor. The mower also has a pivot pin that allows for quite a bit of float left and right. And it pivots fore and aft on another set of pins. The mower is able to pitch, roll and elevate independently of the tractor. If you need more traction you can lift the mower a bit to take weight off of it and put the weight on the tractor. This will eliminate the ability for the mower to float until you push the joystick back into float mode. But the other two axis of motion are still there.

 

[pequeajim]

Hey guys, thanks for the welcome! My first day on TBN has been pretty productive for sure.

I spoke with Scott at Power Trac and he was very polite in answering all of my questions. I think a lot of questions that I have will be answered when I actually drive a 425.

There is another owner on TBN who lives only 30 minutes from me and I am going over to his house this week to drive one around. There is also another owner of a 425 that is about 20 minutes in the other direction and hopefully, I will be able to talk to him as well to get his impressions.

The 425 looks like a great tool for the the yard work that I want to do, and it is sized just right.

I'll let you guys know how I make out.

Jim!

 

[Bob_Skurka]

MOSS wrote: <font color="green"> Yes. The mower floats. This is how it works...
</font>

It is my understanding that the "float" on the PT machine is the same type of float that I have on a traditional CUT with a FEL. The front bucket (or in this case the mower deck) simply rests its dead weight on the ground the wheels of the mower deck allow the mower deck to roll, but the implement weight is not on the tractor, the implement weight is on the ground.

It is my understanding, and I might be wrong but maybe JackIL can jump in with the technical jargon, that the Ventrac floats in a different way. It is my understanding that the Ventrac, when put into float, only places about 20% of the implement weight on the ground at the implement and leaves the remaining 80% of the implement weight on the tractor for use as additional traction.

It is my belief that if you want to keep the weight of the PT mower deck on the tractor then you will have to manually set the implement arm to keep the arm up such that tractor keeps the implement above the ground (even if only 1/8"th of an inch). I am not sure what type of results you will get with mowing slopes that way, but I suspect they will not be very satisfactory if there is any unevenness to the ground. A true weight transfer system, like on the Ventracs and Steiners, and I presume the larger PT units, works very differently than a traditional "float" and also works differently than manually holding the implement slightly off the ground.

I think what you need to decide is what jobs you really need to do. The PT is a more versitile machine, but it is not designed to work on slopes. It will work on slopes, but it is not designed to work on them. For a PT slope machine you must go up to the larger units. The Ventrac, is not as versitile as the PT, but it is designed to do some things very very well. If those things are not the things you need to do, then you have the wrong machine.

My view of the PT and the Ventrac is that both are great machines. The PT is much rougher in terms of quality control, sort of an ugly duckly that works. It is mechanically simple and reliable, but the fit and finish are lacking. The PT is amazing in many of its abilities and probably the best overall FEL machine for the consumer market. I consider the PT to be a Swiss Army Knife, it can do almost any job, but perhaps not all of them are done as well as something else while others are done better.

The Ventrac is a great mower for slopes or flats, it is a good tractor for most other things, but they are expensive and a bit quirky. For dealing with slopes, my observation is the Ventracs are simply better than the PowerTracs (at least the 21hp Ventrac 3000 is better than the 22hp PT422) I doubt there is a task that the Ventrac can't do, but they will be done the Ventrac way.

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue"> I doubt there is a task that the Ventrac can't do, but they will be done the Ventrac way. </font>

How are we going do do it?

The AAAARMY WAY, SIR! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> I doubt there is a task that the Ventrac can't do, but they will be done the Ventrac way.

How are we going do do it?

The AAAARMY WAY, SIR!
</font>

Well you might notice I didn't say it would be done the BEST way!

I think this whole thread strikes me as one of either PT envy because the Ventrac doesn't do everything the PT does. Or it is the case of unrealistic expectations (even if only slightly so) of what the machines can do. Even the largest Ventrac is a small tractor. I think the problem is that we have found someone on the forum who actually NEEDS two different tractors! One for some tasks, and the other for the remainder of the tasks.

 

[JackIL]

Jim,

As I have indicated several times before on this forum, I believe the Ventrac was conceived to excel at turf operations on steep slopes with secondary consideration given to loader operations while the PT is just the opposite.

Given that, the VT is capable of impressive performance in small scale dirt work. For example, see the photos of the recent demo of the loader and excavator at the Louisville EXPO which I posted a couple of weeks ago.

One key for using the Slip Scoop for excavation is to set both Weight Transfer Springs to maximum. This increases breakout capacity dramatically.

See attached photo of me grading and reshaping a clay bank. Although not visible, there is a tooth bar attached. I had it made to improve digging and ripping capability. I remove it for finish grading. A closeup of the toothbar is shown in the following reply.

JackIL

 

[JackIL]

Toothbar fabricated for Ventrac Slip Scoop

 

[pequeajim]

Thanks for the comments Bob.

BTW: That float on the Ventrac is just like any other tractor. It's the WT springs that pull back on the deck to transfer some of the weight to the frame. If you set the weight transfer springs, (chain link adjustment), to off, the deck will drop like a rock. Very handy that it is adjustable.

Let me restate my feelings towards my Ventrac. It is a VERY handy machine and does an excellent job of mowing, however, I was happy with my Massey with a 3 point hitch mower deck. In fact, I liked the Massey for all sorts of things that it did, but when I moved to a hilly area, the Massey did not like the hills, (rather I did not like the hills when I sitting on the Massey). So I ended up with a Ventrac 4000, and eventualy a 4200 this summer.

The thing that I loved about the Ventrac besides the articulated design was it's slope handling capability with duals and the ease of mowing. I really don't look at it as a FEL type of machine even with the loader that they make, it is weak in that area.

So why am I looking at something else? It is because of the FEL capability of the PT, the cost of implements, (which I was entertaining buying more this year), and the power of the hydraulic system to do the chores that I want to do.

Do I envy some of the things that the PT does, sure, why not? I wouldn't be asking about it if I didn't?

Am I unrealistic about the Ventrac, no, I don't think so because otherwise, I would be screaming about what the Ventrac does NOT do? I realize what the machine is and that is why I bought it. It does what I expected it to do, I'm not complaining. However, if there is a machine out there that does MORE of what I want it to do, shouldn't I check it out? I've been using Ventrac for almost five years, they are great machines!

You guys have a lot of knowledge that I can tap in to and that's what I hope to do /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think the questions for me to ask are, 1. Will the PT mow with stability on my slopes? and 2. Will the PT cut cleanly enough for my requirements?

Fortunatly, TBN provided me with a couple of guys that live in my area and I will get a feel for the PT this week.

Thanks for the comments!

Jim!

 

[MossRoad]

Mighty generous of those two folks. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JackIL]

Bob,

The float function is basically the same on all of the tractors being discussed, i.e., a hydraulic valve is placed in the detent position so that there is no pressure applied to the attachment or boom. This allows the deck or bucket to follow undulating ground contours.

With the Ventrac 4200, there is a standard Weight Transfer system consisting of 2 large springs. If they are left disengaged, it is just like all other tractors. They can be manually engaged from very little to a maximum when both springs are fully extended. Then with the WT engaged PLUS putting the lift system into FLOAT, a portion of the attachment weight is carried by the tractor front wheels. This increases grip and stability on sideslopes while still allowing the mower deck to follow the undulations of the ground contour. Of course if you take the system out of Float and barely start to lift the attachment you get 100% weight transfer. This is an option on the VT 4100 as well.

On the Ventrac 3000 there is a non-adjustable single weight transfer spring. It is always in effect. It serves the same function as the system on the 4200 when operating in Float.

As I understand it, there is no comparable system on the PT 400 series although someone earlier in the thread mentioned that it might be available as an option. Some larger PTs do have a weight transfer system as indicated in their website information. They don't say how it works, i.e., by hydraulics or mechanical springs. However, on their larger units advertised as slope mowers, it is there to provide the ability to stay on side slopes.

Weight transfer systems are also used on most commercial mowers with decks out front.

JackIL