My Ford 821 Backhoe does not have a Alternator, Should it?

[jon1996]

Was looking today at my newly acquired Ford 821 Backhoe and it does not have a Alternator on the engine, Did these come factory with one, It has a Power steering pump but its not working, thats when I noticed it did not have one, So is there a way to put one on this old tractor, without one I basically have no lights, and any pics would be great of where it should go
Jon

 

[RickB]

Your tractor was built with a ganerator and voltage regulator, and was originally configured as a 6 volt positive ground system. The generator should be mounted on the LH side of the engine.
If you haven't already done so, do yourself (and the rest of us) a favor and buy an owner's manual and service manual. Both are available from a variety of sources and will answer most of your questions. Manuals listed for 801 series Fords, or Ford tractors built between 1955 and 1964 will be correct.

You can look up parts here;
https://webparts.pvassociates.net/cnh/webparts/main.php

 

[jon1996]

Im going to buy a manual, but it has a power steering pump mounted on the top left of the engine, so I would say someone took the gen off and put the power steering on, Oh and your link don't work.

 

[Soundguy]

ps pump should have been on upper right for that model.

post a pif of your RH and LH front sides of the engine.. lets make sure you have what you think you have.

just go to the nh main site and then parts and you can get to the place where rick's link went to the exploded diagrams

soundguy

here are some pics of some of my fords.. they have a similar engine and setup as an 821.. first 3 are the genny on the left side.

next pic is where the PS pump SHOULD be, again.. pic is of my 950.. but it's the same engine.. etc.

last pic is a diagram found at the site where rick linked to.. it shows the ps pump diagram on the right side of the engine... etc.

 

[Soundguy]

post a pic of what you have... will help us... help you..

soundguy

 

[jon1996]

heres some pics of both sides of the engine, the pump is on the top left of the engine,

 

[Soundguy]

show yer top hose connection at the engine.. see if there is an ear.

too funny.. has the ps pump mounted in place of the genny...

strange what people will cobble together...

soundguy

 

[jon1996]

LOL, Yes it is cobbled together, the wiring someone used wire nuts for a house electrical for all the key switch wiring, The electrical is the first thing I am gonna do then start on the engine, here are some more pics, its very hard to get into to it due to the front loader frame covering everything up, Im hoping I can take that off when I start on the eng work, and I think it needs more weight on the front, the front tires will come off the ground if you let the clutch out to fast, lol but any help is greatly appreciated, I am a railroad diesel mechanic and new to tractors, so if I put a alternator where the PS pump is where will the Pump go are there a bracket kit for the right side of the engine?

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. yer top hose connection has the ear for mounting the power steering pump...on the RIGHT side..

soundguy

 

[jon1996]

in this link the first item, Is this everything I would need to put a alt on my tractor, its the 12volt conversion, not a bad price

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/store/...ea=FORD&&md=821&cat=Electrical System&r=mcats

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. that 135$ kit says it comes with all but a new coil.. napa has an IC14SB 12v coil for 16$

mind you.. you will still need to relocate that ps pump..

soundguy

 

[LBrown59]

Was looking today at my newly acquired Ford 821 Backhoe and it does not have a Alternator on the engine, Did these come factory with one, It has a Power steering pump but its not working, thats when I noticed it did not have one, So is there a way to put one on this old tractor, without one I basically have no lights, and any pics would be great of where it should go
Jon

It has to have an Alternator or Gen already on it and working .
Other wise what is keeping the Battery charged up to operate the Starter?

 

[LD1]

It has to have an Alternator or Gen already on it and working .
Other wise what is keeping the Battery charged up to operate the Starter?

Battery charger after each use?????:laughing:

 

[Soundguy]

It has to have an Alternator or Gen already on it and working .
Other wise what is keeping the Battery charged up to operate the Starter?

hsaid he just got it, and it has no lamps.

a hot 12v battery will start and run a 01 series tractor many times / many hours.

and clearly in his pics.. there is a PS pump cobbled on where the genny SHOULD be. why they didn't put it onthe correct side is beyond me..

soundguy

 

[RickB]

there is a PS pump cobbled on where the genny SHOULD be. why they didn't put it onthe correct side is beyond me..

soundguy

Because some guys will expend no end of time and cash frigging somethin up rather than just repairing correctly.

 

[Soundguy]

i heard that.

did i ever send you the pic of the rube-goldberg pulley and linkage arangement that was on that beater 950 I worked on. it's the tractor that is now wearing your cool ex 12v genny/vreg/brackets as a stealth conversion.. was some monstrosity of bar stock and angle iron mounted up with a bolt and pulley to tensiont he fan belt.. and the owner had to charge it up every week and jump it off .. etc. heck.. even a non functioning alternator woulda held the belt tight.. go figure. i KNOW it took longer to build that pulley contraption that it would have taken to bolt an alternator on there...

soundguy

 

[RickB]

i heard that.

did i ever send you the pic of the rube-goldberg pulley and linkage arangement that was on that beater 950 I worked on. it's the tractor that is now wearing your cool ex 12v genny/vreg/brackets as a stealth conversion.. was some monstrosity of bar stock and angle iron mounted up with a bolt and pulley to tensiont he fan belt.. and the owner had to charge it up every week and jump it off .. etc. heck.. even a non functioning alternator woulda held the belt tight.. go figure. i KNOW it took longer to build that pulley contraption that it would have taken to bolt an alternator on there...

soundguy

No, I haven't seen that pic, but my 841D came to me with a GM p/s pump hanging about a foot outside the RH of the hood. It stuck out further than the headlamp, for cripe's sake. Guy used up about 4 feet of brand new 1/4x2 steel to hang it there.

Nothing for me to do but buy an OEM pump and bolt it on.

 

[Soundguy]

Sweet!

the guy that owned that 950 had a bunch of issues.

it had ( stil does ) the rad out of a small import car in it.. inlet tube is on the wrong side.. I had to search for a molded rubber hose, and got lucky and found one that fit perfectly. was cheaper than buying a new rad.

and he owned no torque wrench.. 80% of the bolts and nuts were tightend till they snapped..then backed off a lil..

garden hose ( YES ) held a vw gas tank free floating in the cut out hood .. whih IMHO.. used to be a nice LPG hood.. but had been torched out wide for the vw tank.

had a gasline from a gm truck on it.. part number on hose said so... vw tank had a hole in the top and was patched with fiberglass!!!

ignition power switch was a bare wire jambed down into the + bat cable when you wanted to run it... dash had been thru a fire at one time.. no doubt from the special wireing and gas tank conversion...

lower rad hose was 2 piece of hose and a metal right angle ? tent pole fitting, that was rusted out and seeping.... bat box bottom was rusted out and battery laying on throttle tension disc... ( dead battery to boot.. bad cell )...

yep.. that's also the one with that had the welded up pa rims. the rims that looked pristine with -0- rust. took me all winter to dismount them monster 14.9's and carefully cut that darn center out and save the pa rims so they still functioned.

oh yeah.. and the WELDED linkage under the lift cover.. OMG! WTF?!?

some people...

soundguy

 

[Opti-Mist]

SG, you must have almost died laughing! I about did reading your description!!

 

[Soundguy]

that was a fun project... looked like this a few weeks after i got it.. and that's on the 'up side...