My Invention

[EddieWalker]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply to my other post about getting a patent. I honestly don't know if I'd qualify if I went that route, and even if I spent the money and somehow received it, there's no way I could inforce it anyway.

Too much money, heartache and effort for something that's very simple for anybody to make themselves. I've croped the pictures just in case I decide to sell the plans on how to build it, but plenty of you will grasp the concept as soon as you see the pics.

What is it?? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

For now I'm calling them Bucket Fingers.

They are an attachment that works off the existing hydraulics already on the front bucket. The bucket stays in place and is half of the operation. The fingers open and close just by opening and closing the bucket.

The advantage and attraction of this for me was not having to run any addition hydraulics. No hoses, no control lever, no quick connects and no hose lines. The amount of steel is minimal and all flat stock. There's nothing fancy here, just a few holes for pivot points, some cutting and welding. LOTS of welding!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The bucket is tilted down so it doesn't pick up any dirt, but will go right over a log or brush pile. Than you close the bucket and the fingers close at the same time, holding everything they grab in the bucket.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

My tractor has a one yard bucket with a fair amount of lift. I can handle most trees I come across.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

I wont go into details, but another thing that I really wanted in this was to be able to put it on and take it of without any effort. Regular grapples require the bucket comes off. That would be a hassle that I wanted to avoid. The other type of grapple requires attaching it to the bucket and weighs quite a bit. Not impossible, but a pain to take off and put on.

This comes apart in pices and is easily installed and removed.

The final advantage is it's around $200 for all the materials!!

Eddie

 

[PILOON]

Ok, I got the general idea.
Hmmm.....now to play with mine and see if I can figure 'how to'
And darn, I just bought a selector valve and cylinder!
As I see it, it's all in the geometry.

NB, while I did not post, I followed all the trend with great interest.
Also had a neighbor that was a 'patent' freek, he had some 30 or so back 10-20 yrs.
I can echo lots of comments as he never made even enough to cover costs
While he had many good ideas, often production or tooling costs placed the item out of reach to the consumer.

Now a days any good idea that can enjoy volume will be copied in China where patents don't count.

For 'us types' a nitch market is the only frontier left.
Got to be little enough demand to keep away the cloning/copy types.

 

[Renze]

Eddie you dont have to tell me more, even with the chopped pictures i know exactly what the idea is...

It's smart thinking, though i still wont change my mind on the hydraulic brush grab i want to build.. I have Euro standard quick attach to my front loader anyways, and 2 external functions so exchange is easy.

 

[HGM]

Very good idea Eddie..... Simple and effective.... I'd make em for local sale /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, that way you could at least recoup your time and money making it and give practice perfecting the design /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, maybe even come up with other ideas.... Just make customers sign a waiver releasing you from their stupidity...

 

[Chairman]

Eddie,

Where was the initial thread for this invention? I'd like to find it if you can let me know, sounds interesting, and I may even get you to build me one.

The one thing, though, is that having a diverter setup is so handy for other attachments, you might find that at the cost of your thing, if you were to build and sell them, may be too high. Glad it is working for you.

I have a patent in a completly different "art" and it is just good to be able to say you have a patent, even if it doesn't do you any good. The other thing is with a little research on writing them up, they aren't that expensive to obtain. Plus, it could be that you might get an offer from a mfgr for the idea. They could produce something this simple WAY cheaper than you could, so it could actually be marketable for them.

You have one year from public disclosure of your idea to write up at least a provisional patent. After that period, you lose the ability to patent it.

 

[slowzuki]

Works just like a clamshell drag bucket or pulp loader. One action is xfered to the other set of jaws. Nifty idea, I'm sure i've seen that on old timely cable powered equipment before they had hydraulics.

 

[Renze]

The basic functioning is exactly the same as this bucket: Think of the right part being the backhoe loader bucket, and the left part being the grab.
The basic principle is old as the road to Rome, but the application is fresh thinking /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[greatrandini]

The prob with making them and selling them is that without a doubt someone will use it for something stupid and get hurt. Then instead of recouping a few bucks u lose ur life style!

 

[Marlowe]

Typical for me, when there's a picture involved I scan the write up and quickly go to the picture. It's worth a thousand words you know. Well, the first picture cut off on the top, so I went to the second picture. Cut off again, so I'm beginning to wonder about this guy's picture taking skills. Why keep cutting off the most interesting part of the danged picture?

Then I went back and read the text, completely.

Oh, OK. Good idea.

Looks neat and seems to work like a champ.

Tom

 

[jinman]

Eddie, that's a very clever invention. I just found this thread with the photo. The idea of using the position of the top lip of the bucket to move the articulated joint of the grapple is very ingenious. If that could be clamped onto the top edge so it could fit a variety of buckets and the width also adjustable, you'd have a very flexible tool. I suspect the mounting to the curl cylinder or bracket could be easily tailored as well. That concept should go over well in the logging areas of East Texas. To use a backhoe thumb effectively, you have to "plant" the tractor on its outriggers. The bucket grapple lets you stay much more mobile. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Renze]

There is one problem with this system: It doesnt work with self levelling loaders. The adjustment of the self levelling will alter the angles of the bucket clamp arm system, so it will either drop some, or bite so hard that the oil pressure exceeds maximum.

As most farm loaders as well as construction wheel loaders have either parallel or Z kinematics, this limits the use of this system mainly to backhoe loaders, because as far as i know, these usually have no parallel system.

 

[Nat]

Actually, Eddie has self levelers on his bucket, not the two bar set up as on my old 555. His is the newer style that uses hyd pressure to level the bucket. We talked about it when we were looking at it one day. The hyd levelers have a pressure by-pass so it shouldn't pose to much of a problem. Later, Nat

 

[btownacres]

Eddie-
Neat idea as you describe it. But if you don't think it's worth patenting and going through all that, why not just show everyone your handy-work? Worse case is it would help the do-it-yourselfers while also keeping the big boys from taking us all to the cleaners selling grapples that just plain cost too much! Either way, nice idea! Good luck with it-

 

[EddieWalker]

Well I've been abusing it and having fun.

A few things need fixing, redoing and strengthening, but overall, it's working good. My biggest mistake was using tractor pins for the pivot points. I thought the 3/4 inch pins would be strong enough and easy to take out. Unfortunately they all bent pretty bad. Now I've got grade 8 bolts. A little more effort to install and remove, but it's still pretty easy.

One thing I didnt realize was how much better it is to stack logs for burning with it. I just put them on top of each other and build up a stack. Before I either dragged them there with a chain, than lifted them up with the bucket. This was a pain hooking and unhooking the chain, but also hard to get the trees into a pile without a bunch of dirt.

With the dozer, I pile everything up, but they get twisted, busted and tangled up real bad. This leaves voids and it's much harder to get the fire going.

Piloon,

You got it. When one thing moves, it causes other things to move. I just took advantage of what's already happening. The angles and distances made a difference as to how well it worked.

In fact, my first attempt with my wood model failed to work at all!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Renze,

I agree that a hydraulic grapple is better. This is just a cheap way to get similar results that is easier to build than a full grapple setup, plus you don't have to add or change your hydraulics.

HGM,

I really don't like working with metal, welding or fabricating things. It's something that I do when I have to, but if I can avoid it, than I will. No way in the world do I want to get into the buisiness of building these things. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chairman,

Welcome to TBN! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The original thread was about how to get a patent in this same section of threads. Do a recent search, or just go back a few pages looking under the title for Patent or under my name as the poster.

Thanks for the info about still being able to get a patent. I still might, but I still think somebody is going to come up with a picture or link of it someplace else. It's too simple a tool to think nobody else has thought of it before.

Slowzuki,

I don't know about drag buckets or pulp loaders, but I'm sure your right. I got the idea from a pair of sissors. If I have a fixed point and a moving one, than I should be able to open and close on an object.

Greatrandini,

People will get hurt on just about anything. It's sad, but the mentality is if somebody is selling it, they must be rich and should be willing to give there earnings away to everyone who wants it. Liability insurance is just one more reason to not get into the manufacturing buisiness. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Marlowe,

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jinman,

Thanks. For me it's been very handy picking up logs and brush and carrying it to the burn pile. I can pick up a stump, a branch and even a small sapling. Then it's just a ride to the burn pile!!!

It might be useful for the loggers, but I think they would need it to be allot bigger and stronger. I'm thinking of guys with CUT's who can weld and have the need for a way to move material, but don't want to spend a grand or two on a grapple.

Your also right there is allot of room for improvement and modifications. I'd also like to be able to add zirk fittins and make it more ajustable.

But in all honesty, just having something that picks up material for under $200 is pretty cool!!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Renze & Nat

Sounds like you guys answered each other. Thanks.

As for small CUT's and self levelers, there may be an issue depending on the way it works. I have no experience with them, so this could be an issue.

Really small CUT's have a different setup on their buckets too and this wont work with them either. Or at least I haven't figured it out yet. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Btownacres,

I still have delusions of making a buck or two by selling plans on how guys can make their own. Might be worthwhile, or it might be a distraction and a headache. I'm still testing and modifying, so it's still too early to tell.

It does work. Can I put together a set of plans that you or anybody else can read and build their own remains to be seen.

Thank you everyone for your comments,
Eddie

 

[drmiller100]

http://www.equipmentland.com/products/amulet/hoeclamp.shtml

for a thumb, but kind of similar.

 

[EddieWalker]

Your right, it's the same idea of using existing hydralics to open and close on an object. There's is pretty refined and from the prices, very expensive. $3,178 for my backhoe!!

Eddie

 

[dfkrug]

I would not be so concerned about what is patentable or
already patented. After all, these mechanical grapple
variations have been around a long time. It is more an
issue of who can produce these at a reasonable price? The
link posted by drmiller100 is one I have not seen, but it
illustrates that there are a lot of them out there. But 2 or
3 thousand for one? That's over the top. I posted a photo
of the BrushCrusher in another thread. It uses the same
principle. One thing I was considering (and have not seen
anything like it) is to implement such a grapple on a backhoe
dipper stick with the variation of using a 2nd hyd cyl on the
same ckt as the curl cylinder. The 2nd cyl is on the bottom
of the dipper stick, just like for a hyd thumb, but opens and
closes with the same curl valve.

 

[3RRL]

Eddie,
That's a heck of an idea, applying those principals to your front bucket. Just goes to show you a little thinking goes a long way. I've thought a lot about doing that to my backhoe but really wanted it on the front bucket for more power and then mobility after picking up. I'm going to copy your idea, if you don't mind. I think it's great.