My letter to Kioti, loader rerepair, long

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Again, I disagree with your assertion that they might not know. They know about the loader cracks because they have already paid for a number (??how many) of repairs. )</font>

Disagreement is fine, but I wonder how you expect that Kioti Corporate knows who HIGHBEAM on TBN is? Since the dealer didn't even send any pictures in, they wouldn't put it together from what they saw here. The would be dealing with a dealer about someone's loader, maybe not even know the name unless the dealer told them. They don't have a crystal ball in the office that I know of so they can put these user names together with the owner's real name.

As for your assertion that they know because "they have already paid for a number (??how many) of repairs" you don't know the answer to that any more than I do. Tell me, how many repairs have they paid for? Any? The only "repair" that we've even heard of on TBN was Joe's botched welding job.

The time to blame Kioti will be after they have had a REAL chance to address the issue being fully armed with photos of the damage and "fix," not before hand, but that's what we do here in the US, try them in the press.

I have no reason to support or defend Kioti in this issue other than the concept of fairness. I don't think it's fair to expect that just because someone in their office occasionally reads threads in TBN that their normal warranty procedures would be changed. They now, apparently have received e-mail evidence of this occurrence, with photos, and it's now officially in their court. As far as I'm concerned, they are innocent until proven guilty, a concept that is fast disappearing in this country.

John

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Again, I disagree with your assertion that they might not know. They know about the loader cracks because they have already paid for a number (??how many) of repairs. )</font>

Disagreement is fine, but I wonder how you expect that Kioti Corporate knows who HIGHBEAM on TBN is? Since the dealer didn't even send any pictures in, they wouldn't put it together from what they saw here. The would be dealing with a dealer about someone's loader, maybe not even know the name unless the dealer told them. They don't have a crystal ball in the office that I know of so they can put these user names together with the owner's real name.

As for your assertion that they know because "they have already paid for a number (??how many) of repairs" you don't know the answer to that any more than I do. Tell me, how many repairs have they paid for? Any? The only "repair" that we've even heard of on TBN was Joe's botched welding job.

The time to blame Kioti will be after they have had a REAL chance to address the issue being fully armed with photos of the damage and "fix," not before hand, but that's what we do here in the US, try them in the press.

I have no reason to support or defend Kioti in this issue other than the concept of fairness. I don't think it's fair to expect that just because someone in their office occasionally reads threads in TBN that their normal warranty procedures would be changed. They now, apparently have received e-mail evidence of this occurrence, with photos, and it's now officially in their court. As far as I'm concerned, they are innocent until proven guilty, a concept that is fast disappearing in this country.

John

 

[IslandTractor]

I don't think it would take a genius at Kioti to figure out that someone in Washington State who is having FEL related warranty problems with a dealer that could be easily identified (how many dealers in WA? and how many also carry JD? how many just made an FEL claim?) might just be someone using the handle "Highbeam". As Kioti already knows about that problem from the dealer they could reasonably put 2 and 2 together. But frankly that is beside the point.

The area you and I are disagreeing about is whether Kioti should have already done something for Highbeam. I think they have plenty of data (original warranty repair records and follow up request for FEL parts for repeat repair) to have spoken with the dealer and or Highbeam (under his official warranty name) to help resolve this issue. Either Kioti has dropped the ball or Highbeam's dealer is slime for insinuating that the problem is with Kioti's lack of responsivness. Someone pointed out earlier that Kioti should not be expected to pay for the same repair twice...I concur so long as they gave an appropriately detailed service bulletin to the dealer who failed to follow it. If they just told the dealer to weld it without ascertaining anything else about the intended repair they are still culpable in my book.

Regarding how many of these repairs have been done, well we've heard of about a handful now (2 new ones since this weekend) on TBN and I know of a well respected dealer who has done repairs on others. Not sure exactly how many but it was plural. There are undoubtedly lots of folks on TBN who have not checked their FELs for cracks yet (I didn't check properly for two months after Highbeam's original post). I think it is clear this is a more common rather than a rare random defect and it should be addressed more openly by Kioti. Again, where is the service bulletin (and if it exists why did Highbeam's dealer not follow it?)

I will close by pointing out that while I may not be the number one Kioti fanatic on TBN, I am certainly a strong supporter of Kioti, especially the CK20, based on my experience. I love the tractor and don't freak out because there is a warranty issue. I just want to feel that the company is going to deal with these inevitable defects in a manner that resembles what Infiniti did (see earlier post) rather than how Ford dealt with the flaming Pintos in the 1970s.

Sure we can wait to see what happens now that Highbeam has sent a letter. But it should not have been necessary to send. And, perhaps the howling going on right now on TBN (the Kioti pack sticks together /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) will teach the corporate guys a lesson or two about life with the WWW.

 

[IslandTractor]

I don't think it would take a genius at Kioti to figure out that someone in Washington State who is having FEL related warranty problems with a dealer that could be easily identified (how many dealers in WA? and how many also carry JD? how many just made an FEL claim?) might just be someone using the handle "Highbeam". As Kioti already knows about that problem from the dealer they could reasonably put 2 and 2 together. But frankly that is beside the point.

The area you and I are disagreeing about is whether Kioti should have already done something for Highbeam. I think they have plenty of data (original warranty repair records and follow up request for FEL parts for repeat repair) to have spoken with the dealer and or Highbeam (under his official warranty name) to help resolve this issue. Either Kioti has dropped the ball or Highbeam's dealer is slime for insinuating that the problem is with Kioti's lack of responsivness. Someone pointed out earlier that Kioti should not be expected to pay for the same repair twice...I concur so long as they gave an appropriately detailed service bulletin to the dealer who failed to follow it. If they just told the dealer to weld it without ascertaining anything else about the intended repair they are still culpable in my book.

Regarding how many of these repairs have been done, well we've heard of about a handful now (2 new ones since this weekend) on TBN and I know of a well respected dealer who has done repairs on others. Not sure exactly how many but it was plural. There are undoubtedly lots of folks on TBN who have not checked their FELs for cracks yet (I didn't check properly for two months after Highbeam's original post). I think it is clear this is a more common rather than a rare random defect and it should be addressed more openly by Kioti. Again, where is the service bulletin (and if it exists why did Highbeam's dealer not follow it?)

I will close by pointing out that while I may not be the number one Kioti fanatic on TBN, I am certainly a strong supporter of Kioti, especially the CK20, based on my experience. I love the tractor and don't freak out because there is a warranty issue. I just want to feel that the company is going to deal with these inevitable defects in a manner that resembles what Infiniti did (see earlier post) rather than how Ford dealt with the flaming Pintos in the 1970s.

Sure we can wait to see what happens now that Highbeam has sent a letter. But it should not have been necessary to send. And, perhaps the howling going on right now on TBN (the Kioti pack sticks together /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) will teach the corporate guys a lesson or two about life with the WWW.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I'll just point out here one more time I've never seen Kubota, New Holland, Woods, ALO, Bradco, etc, actually recomend welding one of their products as an acceptable warrenty repair. Normaly your going to want the failed product back and do x-ray testing on it to look for voids in the metal or workout whatever problem there is with your product. I'd really be curious to know how this ever would be considered as an option for repair.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I'll just point out here one more time I've never seen Kubota, New Holland, Woods, ALO, Bradco, etc, actually recomend welding one of their products as an acceptable warrenty repair. Normaly your going to want the failed product back and do x-ray testing on it to look for voids in the metal or workout whatever problem there is with your product. I'd really be curious to know how this ever would be considered as an option for repair.

 

[HODAK]

Do we know for sure that KIOTI told the dealer to go ahead and weld anything? I think we need to see what happens here. Seems like there is a communication issue. And, a dealer that would tell a customer that they should write a letter to the company for satisfaction??? Not good, especially with something under warranty. I can't believe that KIOTI, (or any company), would tell a dealer to weld something as they see fit with no other involvement. We'll see what happens...

 

[HODAK]

Do we know for sure that KIOTI told the dealer to go ahead and weld anything? I think we need to see what happens here. Seems like there is a communication issue. And, a dealer that would tell a customer that they should write a letter to the company for satisfaction??? Not good, especially with something under warranty. I can't believe that KIOTI, (or any company), would tell a dealer to weld something as they see fit with no other involvement. We'll see what happens...

 

[mwood]

I hate to jump in here if my opinion isn't wanted, but I do have to say one thing...

HB took the loader to the dealer and it came back looking horrible. From the pictures, it doens't even look like they cleaned up and painted over their repair?!?! Since the dealer had a chance to make it right and it came back looking like that, I think HB has every right to rant. People are saying that he should wait for Kioti to do something but are we forgetting that the dealer is a representative of Koiti and therefore, they were given the chance? I'd be VERY upset if anyone ever repaired anything like that for me. I've seen farmers with absolutely no welding experience perform much better repairs than that. They at least paint over their repair (perhaps it doesn't match, but at least it won't rust right away /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Kioti Corporate deserves the chance to make right what their dealer messed up. But meanwhile, HB has a FEL that looks like a two year old was playing with a cheap welder and scrap metal. I'm sorry -- but any service manager or dealer that lets work like that leave the shop deserves to be publicly (on TBN or wherever) discussed. Let's call a spade a spade and admit that the loader "repair" is complete crap. They could have at least ground the hole on the one side smooth and not burnt his hoses...

Let me say that if I were looking for a Kioti in WA, I'd be PMing HB to learn the name of the dealer and I would avoid them like the plague.

Just my $0.02...

 

[mwood]

I hate to jump in here if my opinion isn't wanted, but I do have to say one thing...

HB took the loader to the dealer and it came back looking horrible. From the pictures, it doens't even look like they cleaned up and painted over their repair?!?! Since the dealer had a chance to make it right and it came back looking like that, I think HB has every right to rant. People are saying that he should wait for Kioti to do something but are we forgetting that the dealer is a representative of Koiti and therefore, they were given the chance? I'd be VERY upset if anyone ever repaired anything like that for me. I've seen farmers with absolutely no welding experience perform much better repairs than that. They at least paint over their repair (perhaps it doesn't match, but at least it won't rust right away /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Kioti Corporate deserves the chance to make right what their dealer messed up. But meanwhile, HB has a FEL that looks like a two year old was playing with a cheap welder and scrap metal. I'm sorry -- but any service manager or dealer that lets work like that leave the shop deserves to be publicly (on TBN or wherever) discussed. Let's call a spade a spade and admit that the loader "repair" is complete crap. They could have at least ground the hole on the one side smooth and not burnt his hoses...

Let me say that if I were looking for a Kioti in WA, I'd be PMing HB to learn the name of the dealer and I would avoid them like the plague.

Just my $0.02...